Room Conversation Kavirāja from Calcutta Arrives

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
…with the press [indistinct].

Prabhupāda:
What you are doing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
…with the press from the Indian Express and other newspapers. And also I went to the television and the All-India Radio for the engagement. And also I wanted to discuss with some of my members the immediate plan that we have. So I sent one to Bombay to organize a conference. So I’ll try to cover this area very quickly—Agra, Delhi and Punjab. I’m meeting a lot of scientists. And also I collected several copies of the newspaper, The Statesman. I went to the Statesman building, collected the newspaper, that coverage. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda:
That kavirāja did not come?

Devotee:
That kavirāja? What happened? No one knows.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
Is he coming from Calcutta?

Upendra:
They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o’clock flight.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
I could have gone to the airport. Maybe they are coming tomorrow on the train, Taj Express?

Upendra:
No, by air they came.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
No, no. From Delhi. I thought that maybe he didn’t know that, Adri…? If it starts from Calcutta at twelve o’clock, it should be arriving at Delhi about two o’clock.

Upendra:
Then let’s say one hour, then three to here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
There’s a train at five o’clock that I came by, train, five o’clock. It’s a very good train. Maybe they didn’t know that train. It starts from Nizammuddin Station. So if they’re planning to come by train tomorrow, the Taj Express is at seven o’clock in the morning, arriving Mathurā at nine o’clock.

Upendra:
Someone could call Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
I don’t know whether they’re in the temple or not. I think some of our men came from Delhi temple about four o’clock, arrived in the temple. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he’s agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently, the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don’t do that, because if they get the receipts in their name, then they become the tenant. I don’t want that. They’re living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M.M. is a little clever, I think. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he’s paid, and then we’ll pay. It’s about 650 rupees.

Prabhupāda:
Six hundred and fifty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Half. It’s thirteen hundred total. This is for permanent connection of electricity. The flat never has had a permanent connection. The whole building is not permanent. It’s a temporary line. So all the…

Prabhupāda:
Yearly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
No, no. Once and for all. It’s a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he’ll pay. That’s his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we’re giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we’ll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don’t know why he wants to pay it back. I don’t know. I’ve explained to him that it’s a donation. But anyway, it’s better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don’t think there’s any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?

Prabhupāda:
I don’t think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I mean, verbal agreement is enough, isn’t it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean, I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn’t tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. But he seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I’m sending… I gave the receipts to him, as you saw. I’m sending the letter… I’m sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupāda:
Where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
He’s gone to take his meals now. Then he’s going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupāda:
And he has got the papers?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
He gave them back to me to keep in the almirah locked up. He said until he goes he wants me to keep them carefully. I said all right. And I’m getting him a ticket as well as sending the letters by special mail service to Bombay for Girirāja’s signature, so that at least from our side there will not be any reason to delay. And when I showed him the letter that I had written to the bank, he was very satisfied. He could understand that there should be no difficulty now. He was quite confident after reading the letter. The letter is very clearly written, and with the power of attorney it’s a complete document. I think everything was done all right. He seemed to be satisfied.

Prabhupāda:
So what about kavirāja? He might think it is a whimsical. And that was my last desire. You could not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda:
That kavirāja, I wanted. Somehow or other, it has not happened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I don’t feel that it’s conclusively not happened.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.[?]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes. First we had that Madhva…, not Madhva; Rāmānujī came from Śrī Raṅgajī temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one… We got this medicine from that śakta-kavirāja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kavirāja who’s supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it’s become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they’ve left.

Bhavānanda:
Twice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they’ve left, and yet he’s not here. I don’t know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Śatadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they’re going to arrive, they’d arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
Yes, at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon was not… From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupāda:
They said they have left!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes. Still, whatever the reason is.

Prabhupāda:
But you are not talking… Everything is being done by the same Śatadhanya. [laughs]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
By the same what?

Prabhupāda:
Śatadhanya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
[laughter] Yeah, that’s maybe what the problem is.

Prabhupāda:
And people are bluffing him, and he says…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
And he’s bluffing us. [laughs] He seems very sincere, though. It’s hard not to believe him.

Prabhupāda:
And that was my impression. But how is that? If you take leave, something[?].

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
It is a big mystery, this makara-dhvaja. It is like the immortal elixir, very hard to grasp. I think you described the flowers in the sky? There’s that Bengali…

Bhakti-caru:
Ākāśa-puṣpa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes. Well, one thing we could say in favor of the kavirāja delay in coming is that if he had come, then he might have given some medicine right away. But this way, your body has been given a chance to rest from that other thing that you had taken. By not taking medicine for two days now, it’s good. It’s made… The body will become a little more regular. If he had come, naturally he would have wanted to immediately prescribe some medicine. This is not bad, to give the body a rest after such strong medicine. How much did Prabhupāda drink today?

Bhakti-caru:
A little over 450.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
The stool-passing has stopped?

Bhakti-caru:
Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Well that’s good. Better that you don’t drink any more tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, except a little bit of miśri-jala or some little bit. Then by tomorrow you should be more normal again. Anyway, our activities are going on—parikramā, kīrtana, Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda:
Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but… I mean, just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don’t have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there’s so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can’t see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa’s test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you…

Prabhupāda:
Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
…you know, we go back with him to Calcutta and Māyāpur. That would be very nice. Of course, he has to first of all come here. I’ve seen things like this happen before in India, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean India is the kind of place where…

Bhakti-caru:
It’s difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
It’s difficult. You could drop out of communication for a day. It’s very possible that that can happen. It’s just a very strange kind of place to communicate and to travel in.

Bhakti-caru:
Another thing is that I think this twelve o’clock flight, the noon flight, is not a direct flight. It’s a Caravelle that hops, say, from Calcutta, Benares, Allahabad, Lucknow, Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yeah. So how many hours could that be?

Bhakti-caru:
Five, six hours. Takes a long time. And it’s not as fast as Boeing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
That means it would arrive at 6:30 or 7:00. I think that by tomorrow noon, if they didn’t come, then we would have to say that the matter has become hopeless for them coming. And really it’s a fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you’ve been resting today without taking any medicine is not a bad thing, you know.

Bhakti-caru:
And the passing stool has stopped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yeah, that stopped. That’s the main thing. That was the disturbance—the stool was passing. [pause] So many people are coming to the temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many pilgrims. The temple is full of people all the time. Lots of pilgrims coming. Devotees were saying that in other temples there’s not so much activity as here. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma are attracting all of the people of the land. Everyone is attracted to Them. But it seems like Rādhā-Śyāmasundara are equally popular. People like Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very much, and especially in Vṛndāvana. But Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is unique. I hear them exclaiming. They are at once surprised and pleased to see the two brothers together.

Bhakti-caru:
And the śṛṅgāra is so unique here. It’s the best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes, everyone says the śṛṅgāra is the best. But for flowers we have not yet the best. So we have to make that. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was suggesting a program, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was suggesting that in that open land on the side of the gurukula, that we could build a prasādam pavilion, and we could serve the public every day free prasādam at noon time. That might become very popular in Vṛndāvana. Ḍāl and chapātis. All the sādhus would come. I don’t know if it’s a good idea, but he was suggesting.

Prabhupāda:
Good idea. Very good idea.

Nayanābhirāma:
We used to serve them khicuṛi in the morning. Then they discontinued.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I mean, so many pilgrims come, and there are already so many sādhus living in Vṛndāvana. This would make our temple very, very popular additionally, even more popular than now. So many pilgrims come. I see them. And they’re farmers and things, you know. And if we gave that, probably they would be inclined…, even some of the farmers would bring a little of their…, you know, thinking to offer something also to the Deities, because they would see that we were giving things.

Prabhupāda:
If you distribute prasāda, there will be no scarcity of participants. Bhāta chaḍāle kākera abhāva nei.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
What does that mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda? What does that…?

Bhakti-cāru:
“If you scatter rice, then there’s no dearth of crows.” [laughs]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
“No dearth of crows.”

Svarūpa Dāmodara:
They’ll come by the bunches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
It seems like there’s a Bengali proverb for practically everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
Eta bhaṅga baṅga-deśa tabu raṅge bharā. Explain this.

Bhakti-caru:
That “Bengal has been divided into so many different parts, but still it’s full of rasas and humor.”

Prabhupāda:
Bengali people are easy-going. So therefore they can manufacture all these humors. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Would your Guru Mahārāja tell a lot of Bengali proverbs, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda:
Hmm. I learned from him. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
You once said that he liked you very much, ’cause you were also a Calcutta boy, Calcutta born. [break]

Prabhupāda:
…[indistinct] has money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Actually, I started to have a talk with him about the…

Prabhupāda:
You write. “You are intelligent. I cannot do anything. I only want…”

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes, that point.

Prabhupāda:
[crying] I am very poor man, and somehow or other, I built up. And still in my…

Kavirāja Dāmodara Prasāda Śāstri]: Obeisances.

Prabhupāda:
Aiye. Aiye. [Transl. Come in, Come in.] Kavirāja: [Transl. We are little late, vilamvam sanjātam.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
[whispering] Get Bhakti-caru.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Do you have Makara-dhvaja?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Give me and save my life.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Certainly, you will live. I have very good quality Makara-dhvaja.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I had a dream. I saw, Rāmanuja Sampradāya Vaiṣṇava, Makara-dhvaja, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He is an exalted Vaiṣṇava. He is an incarnation of God, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You are also the best of the devotees coming from His sampradāya.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. My Guru Mahārāja’s order, you preach. So preaching is going on widely.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Going on very nicely.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Preaching is going on, but some more work still need to be accomplished. So if you save me…]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. That you alone can do it.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I am ready to do it. I have travelled all over the world in every town and village. That’s why all these people have joined.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Yes. They are working very hard. In Calcutta there is already, in India, if in the western countries there is so much preaching then gradually it will spread in India also.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You help me.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Surely I will help you Mahārāja.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is your good name?]

Kavirāja:
Dāmodara Prasāda.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Dāmodara Prasāda. You understand, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu gestured in a dream that you have Makara-dhvaja and I should take it.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. It is His mercy only. Man is only an instrument. nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin, You, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight. Bhagavad-gītā 11.33]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You do as you feel right.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What is the problem now? Are you passing Urine properly?]
Adri-dhāraṇa:
[translating:] What is the actual problems?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
The problems are that… The biggest problem…

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You check my pulse.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Did you check his urine? Do you have any report? Nothing.]

Adri-dhāraṇa:
[translating:] Any test on the urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Where is the urine report? [indistinct] urine report. They sent.

Adri-dhāraṇa:
Where’s the descriptions? [background discussion as they try to find]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Where is Bhakti-caru? [break]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Show me your tongue Mahārāja. Take it out little more. That’s okay. Let me see your legs.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Where exactly do you live in Calcutta?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I have a dispensery called Śrī Rāmānuja Ayurveda Bhavan.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Where?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Kalakar Street. Previously in Mandira I was a Vaidya in the Charitable dispensary of the Bānger’s. After working there for two years, now last twenty-five years I have opened my own dispensary.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Bānger told me about you.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I see. I worked at Bāngerjī’s place before. He is a staunch devotee of yours.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. If you can help me to live then I can do some more work.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Since how long does Mahārāja have this swelling?]

Bhakti-caru:
Since when is that dropsy, he said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
The dropsy is more than one year.

Prabhupāda:
No, one year… Less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Well, I mean, I asked Hari-śauri. He said that that swelling has been there for a long time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I’ve seen it for ages…

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Since how long do you have this swelling Mahārāja?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Maximum six months.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Six months. When you started having this swelling, did you ever notice any blood, pus or burning sensation while passing urine?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Nothing like that.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. While passing, sometimes urine stops?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes, it was stopping due to the contraction of the skin of the reproductive organ. So I went to London and had surgery. Now it is alright.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. There was no other complain?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No complain, now…]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Was there any blood in the urine?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. They say there was some last one or two days.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. When? From three, four days?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[translating] Last three, four days, any blood in the urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
No.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Not before. Was there any pus?]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
No.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What is the quantity of his urine?]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Give him the book. He’ll see the quantity.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Is everything written down? The medicines he is taking nowadays, are they Allopathic?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. No medicines.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He doesn’t take any medicine?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Allopathic medicines are failure.]

Bhavānanda:
Tell him when the urine was bloody…

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I will explain to you. Yesterday he passed less urine. At night twelve o’clock he passed 50cc, six o’clock 75cc, ten-thirty in the morning 50cc, two-thirty 50cc, nine o’clock 50cc and eleven o’clock 50cc. That means all together 325cc. Day before yesterday 375cc.]

Kavirāja:
Okay.

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Before that 290cc, and before that 435cc. 190cc, 365cc…]

Kavirāja:
Okay.

Bhavānanda:
When was the urine was bloody? One week ago?

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You try to refine my urine. Let me get back my appetite.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I will check your stomach.]

Bhavānanda:
When was it?

Bhakti-cāru:
That was about ten days back.

Bhavānanda:
Tell him.

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. About ten days ago there was a trace of blood in his urine.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Wasn’t it?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Urine color was pink.]

Bhavānanda:
And tell him that Prabhupāda took allopathic medicine last week. He asked for information.

Bhakti-cāru:
Let him see it first.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Can Prabhupāda lie on his back?

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Mahārāja, do you feel any pain here, where I press?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Not particularly.] [To devotees:] Who has come with him?

Śatadhanya:
This is Adri-dhāraṇa dāsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I told you about him, that he’s collecting very big in Calcutta, making many members. So he has come with the kavirāja personally.

Prabhupāda:
He belongs to which province?

Adri-dhāraṇa:
I was born in Bombay, but my parents are from Sindh.

Śatadhanya:
Sindhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
But he’s born in Bombay.

Bhakti-cāru:
And he joined in Florida, yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
International.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you give him salt to eat?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. No.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Since how long he is not taking any salt?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Long time, four months. At least three months.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you have any urine report or something prior to four months?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Four months…] About six months back we had a report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Urine specimen report?

Bhakti-cāru:
Yes. This is the… He’s asking about that time, four or five months ago.

Bhavānanda:
This one is from…

Bhakti-cāru:
Yes, this is very recent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
That’s better.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. How much water does he drink?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Water no. Now he only drinks fruit juice.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He doesn’t drink water?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Little bit like 100cc.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you boil the water and give?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. So far we have given him Gaṅgā water.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What about food? His diet?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Diet, only fruit juice like 700cc, 800cc or sometimes 1 liter a day. Fruit Juice and water mixed together.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I see. What else? Do you give milk?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. No. We don’t give milk now. By giving milk he gets mucus. So we stopped it.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What else you give, butter milk or something?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yesterday we requested him for butter milk and he said no.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No taste for anything.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. No taste. Did you check his pressure? How much was it?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Pressure 150/80.]

Kavirāja:
150. Good.

Bhakti-cāru:
Pressure is good.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Heart is also good.]

Bhakti-cāru:
When Dr. Ghosh came, that other Dr. Ghosh came… [Transl. About ten or twelve days ago his pressure was 180 and 80.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. 180 and 80. Okay. Have you ever given him Lasix or something?]

Bhakti-cāru:
No.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Now also does he take?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Not now.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Before he used to take.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yes. About six months ago, he used to take. Now last four months it is stopped. We gave Lasix whenever urination stopped. Sometimes urine would stop.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I think he had the prostate problem from before. By seeing, it seems he has problem in pauruṣa-graṇthi or prostate. His kidney is also not in good condition.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. He has infection in the kidney.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. All this swelling is due to the Vrikka or kidney.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I see.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Maharāja, How you are talking about makara-dhvaja? In this condition makara-dhvaja cannot be given. I will give you another makara-dhvaja by which you will become cured. Medicines containing mercury or any arsenic will be poison for you.]
**Prabhupāda: Hmm.Bhakti-cāru: He’s saying that in this condition, Prabhupāda can’t take makara-dhvaja. That any medicine that contains mercury and arsenic is poison to him.Bhavānanda: That’s what Prabhupāda said.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a fact. He found that to be true.Kavirāja:[Transl. There are so many medicines. I will control everything through medicine. It will take time. His liver is not good. Liver function is not proper. There is swelling in the colon. Colon is not good, kidney is not good, but I will control everything. It will take some time. Had this case been reffered to me one and half months ago, I would have made a lot of progress by now. But still by the mercy Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu everything will be alright.]*Bhakti-cāru: He said had he started treating Śrīla Prabhupāda a month and a half ago, it would have been a lot better. Prabhupāda:[Transl. So what are you going to do now?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Pardon?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You live in Calcutta, so do I have to go there?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Who? Me?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. He is asking whether he will have to go there.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Him? In ten, fifteen days his condition will improve. Then either he will come to Calcutta or we will arrange everything here. Now I have checked you thoroughly. Now I can discuss in the phone from Calcutta and understand everything. There is no need to see him.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Śrīla Prabhupāda had a programme of going to Māyāpur.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. First let his condition improve. But in this present situation I cannot permit him to go.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. First you cure him, then he can go.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He will be alright. Now walking, eating, moving and everything else will gradually become normal.]

Bhakti-cāru:
He’s saying that after ten days Prabhupāda’s condition will be completely improved.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I thought, I didn’t know you have some trouble in the kidney, if you had general health problem then I would have administered some rejuvenating therapy. The best medicine for old-age is, yat jarā, the best Ayurvedic physician is Charakajī, there is no one equal to him in Ayurvedic treatment, he writes: yat jarā vyādhi vidhvaṁsi, that which destroys old-age and disease, is called rasāyana or rejuvenating therapy. So first I will cure you then I will use rejuvenating therapy. You will be cured. There is no doubt about it. Besides, you follow proper diet. Those patients who do not follow proper diet, they don’t get cured.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. As you advice I will follow.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Slowly, slowly you will, I will prepare a chart for you about which medicine should you take, what diet should you take and how you should take them. For now I will make this arrangement. Then for your kidney, I will arrange a medicine called Vṛkka sanjīvanī ark. In Ayurveda the kidney is called Vṛkka. Muslims call it Gurdā and English doctors call it Kidney. To repair the kidney there is an ark consisting of twenty-five to thirty medicines. That medicine I will send for you. You can drink it half a bottle every day. It is made in Ganges water. All medicines at my place are prepared in Gaṅgā jala. They are made in a pure state.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Will you stay here for sometime?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Pardon?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Will you stay here for sometime?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. As far as staying is concerned, Mahārāja, your illness is such that it is not going to be cured in a few days. But one thing is sure that all your swelling will subside. Gradually your liver, intestine and over all health will improve. You will know, you will understand in two days my health is improving.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Now you stay here for a few days.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. See, Tomorrow I will be here for sure as I have to arrange everything for your treatment. After that, I have full faith by checking your heart that you will become alright. If a man is healthy and fat but his heart is weak then we give no value to his health. Your heart condition is very sound therefore I hope that you will regain your health.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So you start your treatment.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. You are talking about hunger, within ten to fifteen days you will feel very hungry. You will have appetite for food from within.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then….]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Now whatever food they bring to you, you don’t feel like eating. How is your stool, Mahārāja?]
**Prabhupāda: [Transl. What stool? If I eat then there will be stool.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you feel any constipation? Sometimes you have?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. For stool, we used to give him enema before. Because his stool was hard.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I don’t eat. So how there will be stool?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. And after taking Makara-dhvaja he started having loose motion. The color of the stool was little dark.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. How long did you take Makara-dhvaja?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Two days.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. No. How long from before?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. He didn’t take before.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Who prescribed Makara-dhvaja?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. It is like this, one local Kavirāja was treating him. He was preparing Makara-dhvaja.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. But we cannot give him Makara-dhvaja at all. How did he give? He must not be a Kavirāja then. In this condition…]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. That Kavirāja also said Prabhupāda’s condition is not suitable for Makara-dhvaja.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Yes, not suitable. Anyway I have Makara-dhvaja with me which is twelve times more potent. It took at least one and half months to prepare. It’s a very good medicine. But I cannot give this to Mahārāja. It is like a Brahmāstra, but it is harmful for you. Until we cleanse the kidney, this will jam his kidney. Mercury will jam his kidney.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Explaining:] Makara-dhvaja is a brahmāstra. For Prabhupāda it’s not good.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. First of all we cleanse your kidney.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. As you advise, I will do like that. What about your meal?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Now I won’t take anything. After checking your heart I am very pleased that your body will again start functioning properly.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You offer him milk.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What about your sleep at night Mahārāja? Is it less?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Sleep, sometimes I don’t get and sometimes I get.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Previously you used to stay awake at night?]

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I see, That’s why?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I used to write books. I have written many books.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. He has translated Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā. Almost whole night he stayed awake for this.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. The point is that you have never cared for your body.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Never cared.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Anyway, now we will try to keep your body healthy. Mahārāja, you have to care for your body. Without the body no mission can be accomplished. śarīra mādhyaṁ khalu dharma sādhyaṁ [Kumāra-sambhava 5.33]—religious principles must be cultivated by the help of the body.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. As you say…]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Mahārāja, while lying down you can carry out your preaching work. This work will go on and for that your presence is very important. And for that you need to nourish this broken house of yours, your body.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. As you advise, and Mahāprabhu’s will.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Everything is Lord’s mercy. Man is just an instrument. It’s the Lord who takes the initiative and who inspires to act.]

Prabhupāda:
So, you make the chart, and you mix, and you follow. [Transl. I wanted, you live far away from here, whenever is required how can we have your darśana?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I will make some arrangement. I will arrange a representative of mine who will take care of you. That I will arrange.]

Prabhupāda:
Okay.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Whatever Caitanya Mahāprabhu desires, that will happen. yad bhāvyaṁ tat bhaviṣyati—whatever is destined to happen will happen. There is no doubt about it. Now you take rest. Tomorrow morning I will see you and arrange everything.]

Prabhuāda:
[Transl. That is good. Arrange for his room, milk etc.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yes Srila Prabhupāda.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I would have come earlier, I hired a Taxi but it took a long time. My plane arrived at five o’ clock. Taxiwala took some extra time as the car broke down. I wanted to arrive as soon as possible. I thought, come quickly and see Maharāja and have his darśana. Now I have seen you and am satisfied.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Jagadīśa. Your name is Jagadīśa?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Dāmodara prasāda. dāma udara yasya—Dāmodara, whose belly is bound by a rope. Dāsānudāsa—servant of the servant. Maharāja, ye kaṇṭha lagna tulasī nalinākṣa mālā/ ye bāhumūla paricihnita saṅkha cakra/ ye jihvā lalāṭa phalake lasat urdhapuṇḍra/ te vaiṣṇavebhyonama āśu pavitrayanti. The devotees purify the whole world, as they themselves are pure.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Which province do you belong to?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Rajasthan.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Rajasthan.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. My father was a vaisnava. He cooked his own food. He performed puraścaraṇa ritual three times for his Gāyatrī mantras. In the third time, the personified Gāyatrī appeared herself. While traveling he would drink water in Calcutta and then again drink in Rajasthan.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I see.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I cannot do anything. I have adopted this profession of a physician, I visit patients in the day time, and night time also. So how many times will I take bath? I cannot do like him. But I serve his worshipable Lords Laddu Gopāla and Śālagrāma. Today there was no question of my leaving Calcutta as I had two, three serious cases. That Singhania, he said, you are here because of money. But you are going away to see svāmijī and this is a great sense of duty on your part towards a patient. I finished my work in the dispensary at 10.30 A.M. It was hard to get a flight ticket. It was your mercy that I got a ticket. Therefore whatever the Supreme Lord does is best for everybody.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. [To Adri-dhāraṇa:] Did you pay for his ticket?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[To Adri-dhāraṇa:] Did you pay for the tickets?

Adri-dhāraṇa:
Yes, yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Whatever you say I will do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Everything will be alright. You are all powerful. The human beings have to face the reactions of karma performed by the body.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. The point is I accepted so many disciples and I had to take their sinful reactions.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. That is true.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is my understanding.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. paropakārāya satāṁ vibhute, this body is meant for doing welfare to others. Not for one’s own selfish interest.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I didn’t care for myself.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. This body is perishable anyway. adyānte śatānte vā, it will be finished either today or after hundred years. This is the nature of the body. But what you have done, nobody else can do.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. How old are you?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Pardon?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is your age?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I am 51 years old.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. How many children?]

Kaviraja:
[Transl. 3 sons and 1 daughter. Everything is fine. They are happy. In this material world who is anybody’s child, who is anybody’s daughter, who is anybodys wife? Everything is arranged by providence.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That is true.]

Kaviraja:
[Transl. Things are okay and peaceful. The eldest son has resently passed both as Aṣṭāṅga Doctor and Ayurvedic Doctor. Where I studied in Jaipur, I also studied Allopath side by side, but my English subject was very poor. In sanskṛt I can speak for four hours. I have studied the entire Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam original. Also I have studied Purāṇas, Mahābhārata, and am a Śāstri in sanskṛt grammer. I am an Acarya of Ayurveda both from Jaipur and Delhi. In the beginning I had strong faith in Allopath. Later I got a case of Tuberclosis in the kidney. Vṛkka-kṣaya. It took me two years to treat and cure it. I understood that yat iha asti tad anyatra na tat kvacit, what is in our culture, in our Ayurveda, is not found anywhere in the world.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Not found.]

Kaviraja:
[Transl. This is my experience. I use only pure Ayurvedic medicines and I get success. You will be cured by Ayurvedic medicine. This weakness will gradually go away. These bones, gradually muscles will build up, blood will increase. As liver starts to function properly, as kidney starts to work properly, kidney pushes out the stool and other toxins from the body. And liver spreads it. So gradually you will be alright. By the way, how old are you? Above 80?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. According to Horoscope the duration of life is finished. But whatever the Supreme Lord desires.]

Kaviraja:
[Transl. I will tell you something, you do not know, in my village there is a pujari who was told by an astrologer that he has a deadly period. He had a chronic disorder of the bowels. I went to see him. I prescribed him parpati medicine. But he said, my horoscope says I will die in the month of Kartik. He used to pass stool ten to twenty times a day. I gave him parpati and he lived for five years. Finally he died of heart fail. Therefore sometimes due to wrong calculation of Horoscope it happens like that. There might be some differences in time. One who knows to read a chart correctly his prediction is right. But by seeing the condition of your body I cannot say so. Had I noticed something serious in your body, I would have informed it. The body will go one day. Not mine alone, everyone’s body will be gone. Considering your physical, heart condition I hope your health will improve completely.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Let us see.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Above all Caitanya Mahāprabhu is there, He is the actual doer.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You explain everything in detail.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. I will explain. Should I go now? Alright Mahārāja, see you tomorrow morning.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Okay.][kavirāja leaves] [break]
**Prabhupāda: Hmm? What do you think?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it’s hard to… I couldn’t follow everything because it was in Hindi. Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He, erm, he talks a lot. Of course, Marwaris always talk a lot. He’s a Marwari, so they always talk like that. We’ll have to see how his medicine works, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There’s no way to tell; we are always getting fooled. But first impression simply by seeing is very difficult in this age. I would rather…Prabhupāda: No, this is the last. We have tried. So, let us follow him.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Definitely we should try his medicine.Prabhupāda: Adri? Adri-dhāraṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda?Prabhupāda: So, what is that? Huh?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?Prabhupāda: You give him some hint. He was going to talk, and you stopped him.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going to what?

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?]Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [to Adri-dharaṇa:] Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, very big practice. He is known for his quality, mixing of drugs.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acchā. Big practice in Calcutta.Adri-dharaṇa: On the plane he met another doctor, and he chastised him for making diluted drugs. So it seems…Prabhupāda: Huh? Śāstrī?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that on the plane he met another doctor, so he chastised that other doctor for making diluted drugs. He’s known for his upstanding qualities in making…, the mixing of drugs purely.Adri-dharaṇa: Everything he makes, he claims that he makes by the hand. And he’s also recommended by another Rāmānuja Āyur-veda. Actually, we had gone to see him there, and he said to approach this man. He said this is the best man in the field.Prabhupāda: Who is that man?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the other man?Adri-dharaṇa: That man, Govardhanji, he is on [indistinct] Cotton Street, and he was recommended by L. N. Bangur.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, the other one?Adri-dharaṇa: Yes.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he would not come.Adri-dharaṇa: No, he said that “You need the best man for this,” and he said…, he recommended him.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That other one, Govardhanji, he was a Rāmānuja?Adri-dharaṇa: Also Rāmānuja, but not so staunch as this man.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: L. N. Bangur recommended another one, but that other one, when Adri-dharaṇa went there, the other one recommended this one, saying this one is better. And Adri-dharaṇa said this one is more staunch.Adri-dharaṇa: And when I came he was very…, he had many good Vaiṣṇava qualities. Immediately he said, “This is for a Gurujī, for a devotee. I am not take anything. I’ll do all my services free.“Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s a good quality.Adri-dharaṇa: Actually, when he flies and…Prabhupāda: So, this is a last resort, whatever it may be. Is that all right?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.Prabhupāda: Huh?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, we don’t mind going on looking one after another for…Prabhupāda: Huh. No more. No more trial. Adri-dharaṇa?Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?Prabhupāda: What do you think?Adri-dharaṇa: About this man?Prabhupāda: Yes. Follow strictly.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you agree that we should follow strictly his advice?Adri-dharaṇa: From my experience I think he’s a very good man. He’s a Vaiṣṇava.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We certainly have… We might as well try. We’ve tried everyone else.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let us try.Bhavānanda: He did agree with your own diagnosis, Prabhupāda. He said makara-dhvaja at this point would be poison, and today you said that it was poison.Prabhupāda: Yes.Bhavānanda: So that was…Prabhupāda: Mmm. Śatadhanya: [whispering] Does he look like the man in the dream?Prabhupāda: Hmm?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya asked whether he looks like the man you saw in the dream.Prabhupāda: He has tilaka?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he has nice tilaka.Prabhupāda: The other man, he has not tilaka?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Govardhanji has tilaka?Adri-dharaṇa: No.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.Prabhupāda: That’s all right.Adri-dharaṇa: Also Govardhanji was not very…, extremely helpful. He said he would not come to Vṛndāvana. He said he would not…Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now this man said in fifteen days Prabhupāda would be better?Adri-dharaṇa: He said there will be improvement. In a few days, two or three days, there will be improvement.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he’s staying for two or three days at least? Or is he going to stay one day and leave?Adri-dharaṇa: So he is not… His mind is not made up. I’ll have to talk to him and ask him to stay longer.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let him first of all prescribe…Adri-dharaṇa: Medicine.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he should stay to see what the effect of the medicine is. Supposing he prescribes, and it has a reverse reaction? Then if he’s gone, how will he see anything?Prabhupāda: No, whatever chart he has made, he’ll follow.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we can follow, but if it has a bad reaction, you’ll want to change it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You can’t say that we’ll follow blindly. If something is given and it doesn’t work properly, you’ll want to have it adjusted. Better if he stays here for some time with you.Adri-dharaṇa: At least some days.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for a few days he should stay here and see how the medicine is working.Prabhupāda: Hmm. First of all let him make chart.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.Prabhupāda: Huh?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, of course. No, that’s right. First he should make prescription, and then we’ll see.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Adri, you should go with him. You are staying in that room with him?Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, I’m staying with him.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why don’t you go? I told him to go, be with the kavirāja.Prabhupāda: Mm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He’s staying in the same room with him.Prabhupāda: Oh, that’s nice.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They gave him the governor’s room, that number thirty-one, the big room. Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I talk to you about Vrindavan Chandra?Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I had a little talk with him, you know.Prabhupāda: Ha.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ‘Cause you’re giving him about… He gets about 800 rupees a month from the BBT for travel expenses.Prabhupāda: Mm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I have some experience with myself as organizing books distribution.Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So when we would spend with our Rādhā-Dāmodara party, we used to spend about five thousand dollars a month for travel expenses, but for that five thousand dollars we would make a hundred thousand dollars.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, twenty times whatever we spent on traveling…Prabhupāda: And if he does not give substantial order, then stop it.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he’s not giving any order. I mean, the point I made to him was that…Prabhupāda: Then don’t give.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him, “Vrindavan, you’re getting 800 rupees, so for that 800 rupees you must be booking ten to twenty thousand rupees’ worth of orders.“Prabhupāda: So if he’s not giving, then stop it.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I said to him, “If you’re getting ten or twenty thousand, either…, two things are happening: either you’re not getting the orders-then what is the use of spending 800 rupees?“Prabhupāda: Yes.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: “Or the other thing is that you’re getting the orders but you’re not giving any money to the BBT.“Prabhupāda: Then let them be satisfied with stipends, two hundred, three hundred, live in that house, and then like that, nothing wrong.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have no objection to paying him if he was doing business, but…Prabhupāda: Yes.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: …I just see he’s not doing it.Prabhupāda: I fully depend on your discrimination. I…, if he’s not giving bill, then just stop it.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him that “If you do business, you take the 800 rupees, but doing business means you’ll pay the BBT some bills.“Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: “If you’re not paying any bills it means you’re not doing business.” He is…Prabhupāda: Very carefully the… I want they may not…Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Squander.Prabhupāda: …suffer for want of stipend and place. That’s all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.Prabhupāda: Do like that, and I fully depend on you. If he’s not giving business, what is the use of?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is spen… I think he’s just taking the money and using it for some other business. He can’t be spending 800 rupees and not doing any business.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if he’s spending the 800 for traveling and not booking order, then what is the use of spending the 800 rupees?Prabhupāda: Yes. Tell him frankly.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.Prabhupāda: Then stop everything.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him. I said, “You think about it tonight, and tomorrow we’ll talk again.“Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm. Do everything very cautiously.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.Prabhupāda: It is not that out of affection we shall squander money.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mm.Prabhupāda: So use your best intelligence, and if he has not given, then stop everything. Let them have two hundred fifty per month per head and live in that house. That’s all. This is my final.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred fifty plus we have to fix seven hundred fifty.Prabhupāda: Hmm?Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.Prabhupāda: That is after.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven years.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.Prabhupāda: That is after.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.Prabhupāda: Not now.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no.Prabhupāda: Not a single paisa more than two hundred fifty. Only my wife may get five hundred, that’s all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She’s getting a thousand, actually.Prabhupāda: Hmm. [pause] So take his chart and try to follow. This is the last resort. That’s all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Well, don’t say it is the last. We’re not going to…, ever going to give up hope.Prabhupāda: Hmm. He appears to be hopeful.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He seems very hopeful. His attitude appeared hopeful.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that your heart is very strong, therefore what is the question of dying? They all say that point. Their whole contention is on the heart, that because the heart is strong, they say there’s no question of dying. And actually, that agrees with the astrologers. None of the astrologers say you will die now. They all say it’s a difficult time, but they never say that you will die now.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that you’ll overcome this.Prabhupāda: That’s nice.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And your disciples all say that you will overcome. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.Prabhupāda: Hmm. Heart is strong, then where is the question of tuberculosis? [laughs] Wrong present[?].Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Prabhupāda?Prabhupāda: Somebody said tuberculosis.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that was that allopathic Dr. Gopal.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Śatadhanya: He was guessing.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Foolish.Śatadhanya: He was just guessing.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was guessing, but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.Prabhupāda: No, no. Therefore I am not going to.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally failure for you. There’s no question of going back to them in any case.Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something, and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.Prabhupāda: Hmm. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.Prabhupāda: I am not going to die… I will die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. [quiet laughter] The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you… If you don’t have the disease, then they’ll make sure you get it, simply to be right.Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good [indistinct], that’s all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I’ll not object; I will follow. Is that all right?Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.Prabhupāda: Hmm. And from Vrindavan, if he’s not getting business, stop all, everything.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He’s not getting business. He told me he’s having bad luck; he cannot get any business.Prabhupāda: Oh, so if he has to do business, he has to pay cash and he’ll get fifty percent.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If he was getting the business, he would have paid your BBT some money.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In over a year he has paid two or three thousand rupees. That’s not business. He’s taking 800 rupees a month for so long for travel expenses, and he’s paid maybe two or three thousand rupees total. I mean it’s crazy business.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anybody can see it’s not good business.Prabhupāda: So, stop it all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I talked with him in a nice way, though. I said, “Now you tell me, Vrindavan.” I gave him the points. I said, “So you think about it tonight, and you let me know tomorrow.” I’m talking in a nice way with him, because I feel that in… I want them to be happy. I can see they’re not so intelligent, so they should not suffer.Prabhupāda: At least five thousand rupees’ business must be given; otherwise stop. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Immediately there should be business. If a man spends nearly a thousand rupees for traveling every month, he must be making fifteen, twenty thousand rupees. But he is not giving any money at all to the BBT. So where’s the one thousand rupees going that he’s given? He couldn’t be using it for…Prabhupāda: So we have given him chance, and now stop it.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You’ve given him travel money now for about two years. And he hasn’t given any money to the BBT out of it, so I, I really question it. I’ll talk with him further.Prabhupāda: You deal.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know how to do this, because I was doing the saṅkīrtana, so I know what should come from the money he’s spending. It’s the same idea as anywhere in the world. You spend, it’s business, business, whether it’s dollars or rupees. I’ll try…Prabhupāda: That man who has kept, he’s working as assistant, he is plundering him.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I think so.Prabhupāda: He’s a foolish man.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the thing is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he’s not that intelligent. He’s going to be plundered, I mean that’s the unfortunate part. That’s why we just have to help them, and at the same time not let them suffer.Prabhupāda: No, try to help, but not squander.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that’s the point.Prabhupāda: I give you full freedom. As you like. But arrange that they may remain in that house, lifelong, and get each two hundred and fifty. Only my wife five hundred, that’s all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What happens after, when they start getting seven hundred fifty rupees after seven years? They may squander a little bit. But we’ll be…Prabhupāda: No, that is already invested. I read government paper.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Those three things.Prabhupāda: Yes.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Good. When the seven hundred and fifty rupees is put in fixed deposit for them, it’s put in their name, so it belongs to them, and we can just tell the bank…Prabhupāda: Then let them…Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let them have it.Prabhupāda: After seven years.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can have it, even if they…Prabhupāda: …squander. I don’t mind.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.Prabhupāda: Our money is not touched.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it’s not.Prabhupāda: That’s all.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can only exercise a certain amount of control; the rest they have to also have some control.Prabhupāda: Our capital is not touched.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it’s not touched.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, I understand how to deal with them. We have to be like their guardians.Prabhupāda: Hmm.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the point. We have to see that they are taken care of and try to help them to live properly.Prabhupāda: You are so intelligent boy, you can control them; otherwise stop.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So you try to rest now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.Prabhupāda: Hmm. So thank you very much, Adri-dharaṇa.Śatadhanya: He went back to his room.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He worked well today.Prabhupāda: I was surprised that in morning he said, “I’m coming.” Anyway, better late than never.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.Prabhupāda: Jaya. All glories.Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All glories to you. [break] …were saying.Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of our men went to the Delhi University. They also met the Dean of Sciences, Delhi University. In fact they told him…, he told them that there is news release. So in fact he gave the cutting of the newspaper to them. So they have read. So it seems to me that there’s some good publicity. [break] Most of them knew that we were coming from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.Prabhupāda: A new light.Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. There’s going to be an international symposium in Madras early next year about the…, what they call complex light molecules in evolution, and there’s going to be some Nobel Prize-winning scientists. So we’ll be writing a letter to present our paper in that symposium. That’s first week of January next year. I think if we can present one paper, that will be, I think, quite good. [break]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I think you had no problem at night?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. No, nothing. What problem. Did he sleep last night?]

Adri-dhāraṇa:
Did you have good rest last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Did you sleep at night?]

Prabhupāda:
At the end of the night.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Alright. In the morning also you had little sleep? Did you pass stool or not? Latrine?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I didn’t eat anything. Just now I took some Horlicks. I passed urine.] What is the quantity?

Bhakti-cāru:
Of the Horlicks, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. In the morning he took 150cc Horlicks and after that he passed urine 100cc.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. How many times in a day you give him Horlicks?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Today I gave him. Yesterday morning also I gave him little. Let us see how it suits him?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Horlicks will be good for him.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. It will be good. Today I will see how it goes and then from tomorrow I will add some milk in the Horlicks and give him.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He has no appetite, otherwise he could have taken little bit of grain like daliya made of wheat.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I see.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you know Daliya?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Today he wants to take some ladies finger he said.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. No ladies finger, give him Lauki or bottle gourd.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. He doesn’t eat anything. So he wanted to…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Okay, give me lauki.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Lauki is good, Parbal is good.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. The thing is he doesn’t eat.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He has no appetite now. As he gets back his appetite his power of digestion will also increase. Let me see his hand. Yellowish. Wherever there is swelling you apply there. You write down Narkachur and Soṇṭh. You make very fine powder of both these items and mix them. Wherever he has got swelling you apply that powder there. There is one oil called Śuṣkamūlādi oil.Bhakti-cāru: [Transl. We have Śuṣkamūladi oil.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. You have? Do you apply?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. We don’t apply.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Keep on applying.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Let me show you.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. This Vṛkka sañjīvani ark and Punārṇava ark, this you give him. It is made with distilled water. Taste is okay. It will cleanse the kidney. You understand? During the day you give him plain water from time to time and in between you give him this ark. Atleast half a bottle he should be taking daily. This will increase the quantity of his urine. And his medicine, I will give four medicines. He sleeps, I think he sleeps less from before. So whatever sleep he gets now is okay. As his health improves, he will sleep more. You make a decoction as I write it down for you. You take 25 gms of decoction and mix it with 200gms water and keep it overnight. In the morning you boil it slowly until it reduces to 25 gms, then you strain it with a fresh cloth. You understand everything? After straining you throw away the herbs and give this decoction followed by the number one medicine.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. How to make the decoction?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. It will contain six, seven ingredients which I will write down and you get it from the market. Is there a grocery shop in Vṛṇdāvana?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yes, there will be in Vṛṇdāvana.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. If there is in Vṛṇdāvana then I will go there and you send somebody with me. I will check and bring them. There are so many fake things in the market. That you give two times a day, morning 7 o’clock and afternoon 5 o’clock. You write down, number one medicine 7 A.M. & 5 P.M. Number two medicine, 12 noon and 8 P.M. with ark. Like this four times he will take medicine. This medicine will help improve his kidney, liver and give him strength. Also something for getting appetite is included in this. For one week, we have to see that the quantity of his urine should increase.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Before also the other Kavirāja had given him Punārṇava leaves juice and white parpati for swelling.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Punārṇava root works better than it’s leaves. Do you get Punārṇava here?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. We used to get them three four months ago.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. It is available everywhere.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Now we can get.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Now I will give Punārṇava ark, Gokhura ark and Vṛkka sañjīvani for kidney. Punārṇava helps reduce the swelling.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I see. Before also his swelling reduced by this.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. With the mid-day medicine, Punārṇa roots, Makoi.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. What is Makoi?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Makoi is a medicinal herb. You take punārṇava roots juice and makoi juice half ounce each and give at noon time and at night.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Punārṇa roots we can get here.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Why don’t you call the Kavirāja and I will explain to him everything.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Let us do like this, when you will go to the market I will also come with you.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Because, in my absence if there is any problem he can take care of it. I want to talk and explain the medicines how to give. That will be very nice.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Certainly.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. A local physician can attend him every day. He will take care. He will know the medicines. I will tell him he should make sure that the medicines are continued for ten days as per my instruction. After about fifteen days I will change some medicines for him. When he will start feeling hungry, when the swelling goes down, then I will advice him which medicines are to be added and stopped. When he has appetite, what does he eat? Does he take curd or something?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. That is the big question. He doesn’t eat anything.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. He doesn’t ask also.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Neither he asks nor he eats.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Swāmijī, take little bit of food. If you don’t eat how will you go on? If you like, take some Daliyā. Do you understand Daliyā, made of wheat? If you want you can take some curd. Don’t feel like. Then for a few days give him Horlicks. Also prepare some barley water and give him.]

Bhakti-cāru:
Okay.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Barley is a grain. It is ārṣa-anna, it is very nutricious. So you give him barley two times a day.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I can mix it with Horlicks.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Yes. Mix and give. The point is more liquids should go in his body.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. As for liquid, about 700cc, 800cc to one liter he drinks every day.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Very good. Of that you give barley two times with Horlicks and other times you give fruit juice like orange juice.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Grapes juice, pomegranate juice, and day before yesterday I gave him apple juice also.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Do you give boiled apple.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. No, apple juice with honey. Orange juice I gave him two days ago.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. You should give him little honey every day. Honey is very good. It makes the heart strong.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I give honey.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. The decoction I was telling you about, you mix one spoon of honey with it and give him.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Like that I mix two to three spoons of honey with fruit juice.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Honey? Very good. I believe within fifteen days the swelling will go away. In fifteen days the kidney will start functioning properly and…]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Appetite?]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Appetite will come. In three four days he will have appetite.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. That is the biggest question. If he gets back his appetite…]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. What is his diet in normal condition?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. When he was well, when he was eating about six months ago he took sabjī, dāl, one or two chapatīs and rice.]

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Every day?]

Bhakti-cāru:
Yes.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Two times? Or he ate only once?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. One time.] To others: How about his food? When he is to eat? What he is to eat?

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Does he take milk or something in the evening?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. In the evening, sometimes milk, sometimes fruit juice. Often he wouldn’t eat anything at night.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Mornings, he used to take. Fruits.

Bhakti-cāru:
No, he’s just asking what the main meal is, anyway.

Kavirāja:
[Transl. Alright. Just remember that he should take enough liquid. And when he will have appetite you give him chapati, daliyā made of wheat and mixed with milk. He should take cow milk daily.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Milk.] *[end]