Evening Darśana

Prabhupāda:
Fifth Canto, fifth chapter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Fifth Canto, fifth chapter? I don’t have the first volume, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We only have the second volume of Fifth Canto with us.

Prabhupāda:
No other Bhāgavatam?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
We do. We have Prahlāda Mahārāja teachings, Seventh Canto.

Prabhupāda:
No, Bhāgavata original?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Original Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda:
Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Paṇḍitjī might have taken.

Prabhupāda:
Ask Panditjī.

Upendra:
Is he downstairs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I don’t think so.

Prabhupāda:
Hmm?

Upendra:
Paṇḍitjī’s not here.

Prabhupāda:
Why he does not remain here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
He does his work at the Svargāśrama. He’s supposed to come here to explain. He’s been coming every day.

Prabhupāda:
You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB. 5.5.4]. The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that “This body, human body…” Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke [SB. 5.5.1]. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]:

“After this body is finished, another body.” Because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato ’yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body.

So Ṛṣabhadeva says, “This ignorance of self-realization must be removed.” Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: “This body should not be misused like animals,” āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna[Hitopadeśa 25]. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: “in the human form of body.” The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance. They have no chance. There are uncivilized men. Although they have got two hands, two legs, but because there is no knowledge, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśu. They are animal with two legs. Other animals, they have got four legs, and this rascal has got two legs. That is the difference. So ayaṁ dehaḥ, this body, na ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke… Nāyaṁ dehaḥ nṛlo…, deha-bhājām. Deha-bhājām. This is also very significant. There are innumerable living entities. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate [Cc. Madhya 19.140]. These jīvas, living entities, part and parcel of God, anantyāya kalpate. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine, this is very atomic parts of the sun brightness. They are individual, but they are combined. We see one shining. So similarly, God is compared with the sun, and we are atomic particles of God—the same thing in a very small quantity. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca. You take the tip of the hair and divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the formation of the jīva.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
śatadhā kalpitasya ca
jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
sa ānantyāya kalpate
[Cc. Madhya 19.140]

You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas… Not all of them. Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering, one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9].

This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, “My dear boys, you don’t spoil your life.” “I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling.” “No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs.” Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB. 5.5.1]: “For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose.” You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, “This kind of advancement is…”

[break] …motorcar. “Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!” Therefore He warns, “No, no, no, no. This is not civilization.” Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān [SB. 5.5.1]. “So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good.” Then? What it is meant for? Tapa divyam.

So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB. 5.5.1]. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman.* Anantam:* “There is no end.” Here, whatever happiness you are getting, that is not unlimited. Limited. That limited happiness is available in the life of cats and dogs also. So the human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam.

So this tapasya can be practiced… Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB. 5.5.2]. You have to render your service to mahat, mahat, mahātmā. And who is mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ [Bg. 9.13]. This is mahātmā. Kṛṣṇa says. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā
[Bg. 7.19]

One who has understood Kṛṣṇa—“Vāsudeva is everything”—he is mahātmā. Sa mahātmā. So that is recommended. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ [SB. 5.5.2]. If you get the chance of getting such mahātmā, then try to give him service. Become his servant. Then your path of liberation will be open. And tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam: those who are after sense gratification, if you associate with them, then you are going to the darkness. Two ways are open: āhur vimukteḥ and dvāram, tamo-dvāram. Now make your choice, “In which way we shall go: in this way or that way?”

Everything is given, information, in the Bhagavad-gītā and all other śāstras. Bhagavad-gītā is the gist of all Vedas and Upaniṣads, Vedānta. Vedānta-kṛd vedānta-vit. Kṛṣṇa is vedānta-vit and vedānta-kṛt. Kṛṣṇa, in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva, He has compiled the Vedānta-sūtra. He has recommended also in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ [Bg. 13.5]. Brahma-sūtra-padaiḥ, everything is established very reasonably. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking Vedānta-sūtra. Veda means knowledge; anta means the end of knowledge. The end of knowledge is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān [Bg. 7.19]. Man of knowledge is jñānavān. So ordinary jñānavān, little knowledge, they cannot understand. Yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. But a person cultivating knowledge for many lives, he can understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. So Vāsudeva personally explaining Himself, “I am like this; I am like that.” Why should we not understand? What is the objection? *Boliye. [Answer?]

Indian man (1):
There should be no objection.

Prabhupāda:
But people are not following Vāsudeva. They are creating new, new Vāsudeva. And somebody told that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man? Trivikrama Mahārāja or somebody told me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11].

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yeah, the people who are coming in at night are saying that.

Prabhupāda:
Hmm.

vāsudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
[SB. 1.2.7]

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies, they are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like; inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. [Transl. Renunciation is not taking place. It is very difficult. Can’t give up.] Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. *Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. [Transl. Please come. They don’t give up only. Until they are shot dead. Gandhi was a Mahātmā, but he did not quit politics. When he was shot by a gun then what he can do? He had to quit. This is the position.] Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister.

[Transl. Govinda Vallabha Panth? Doesn’t want to quit only. They are forcibly dragged by Yamarāja. Then they quit. They don’t think that they have to quit. If by quiting ten or twenty years earlier they can achieve knowledge and renunciation, that is intelligence. You have to quit at any cost. If you want to remain a big man for ever, that is not going to happen. *mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]

[Transl. God will come one day in the form of death and snatch away everything. Finished. Your home, your estate, your business, your bank balance. sarva hara, everything take away. Everyone knows this that everything will be taken away by force. Then why not give it up voluntarily ten or twenty years before? Learn what is knowledge and renunciation. What Lord Vāsudeva is saying, let me have a] practical application* [Transl. of that in my life. That is not important.
[Transl. And taking big, big attempt to enjoy sense gratification is alright! Ṛṣabhadeva says, na sādhu manye [SB 5.5.4] This is not good. Why? We are earning money, this is not good? Not proper? Ṛṣabhadeva says, this is not good. Why? Because, all you will get is, asann api kleśada asa deha, [SB 5.5.4] this body you have got as a result of your karma, again you will have to accept another body. And as soon as you get a body, kleśada, only miseries. Although this body will not stay, asan, ten, twenty, twenty-five, little more, may be fifty, sixty years, asann api, for a short time. * [Transl. But as long as it will stay, it will give you miseries. Many types of miseries. Try to understand this. asann api kleśada asa deha. [pause] You see, nowadays the yogic process is taught so that the body can stay fit and strong, and the mind can remain fixed up. But what is use of that? You must give up the body. Rather you teach some yoga system so that the body is will not be ruined. That is not possible. That is possible only by worshiping the Supreme Lord.]

Indian man:
[Transl. The mind will be controlled.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is the use of it?]

Indian man:
[Transl. So that devotional service can be rendered properly.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Devotional service is not dependent on anything.] *ahaituky apratihatā. *That is *bhakti.[Transl. If devotional service is dependent on some material activities then it is not pure devotional service. Pure devotional service,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yayātmā suprasīdati
[SB. 1.2.6]

[Transl. so pure devotional service, it is not that because I have jñāna therefore I have developed devotional service, or because I have mystic perfection therefore I have got devotional service. No. No.]

Indian man:
[Transl. If one has, then it must have developed from jñāna?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No.]

Indian man:
[Transl. Not even from jñāna?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No. What jñāna did Hanuman have? He was an animal.]

Indian man:
[Transl. He had full surrender.]
*Prabhupāda:[Transl. There are many instances like that. He was not a Vedantist! Rāmacandra asked him “go and bring medicine from the mountain” He thought “how to find the medicine, let me take the whole mountain.” Just imagine? He then said “my Lord, kindly find the medicine You need.” Simply because of his service attitude Bajrangajī is being worshiped even today. bhakti, jñāna, vairāgya anāvṛtam, not from jñāna, vairāgya. But rather jñāna and vairāgya are dependent on bhakti.] Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend… ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. [Transl. When the Supreme Lord is personally giving knowledge, teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy [Bg. 10.11] Then where is the question of his ignorance? Where is the need for him to separately endeavor for knowledge?] Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe ’rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. And He assures… [Transl. To show a special favor to a devotee, teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy then where is ignorance for him? It is wrong to say that the devotees are ignorant. Actually the devotees alone possess the real knowledge. Because they know, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā [Bg. 7.19]. [Transl. It is wrong to assume that after attaining knowledge one attains bhakti. brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]

**The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati or no hankering. Yogī kāṅkṣati or no hankering. [Transl. He wants mystic perfection. He wants to show magic. So kāṇkṣati. One who is real self realized, he is na kāṇkṣati or free from hankering. Who is he? *mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. [Bg. 18.54] One has to surpass these stages. The karmīs are lamenting “such and such things we don’t have, such and such things we had but we have lost. And the jñānīs, yogīs, they are kāṇkṣati or hankering. “We want liberation, we want mystic perfection”. So that is not brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. That is a material platform, a covering of dry knowledge and renunciation. Is that right? When one is in the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ, then why there is hankering?]Indian man:[Transl. Then what should we desire?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Han?]

Indian man:
[Transl. Who should we desire for?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is natural for us.] Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is self interest.* [Transl. They work in so many ways. Bring oil, they bring. They hold food. But they don’t say “We will eat”. Just bring food, that’s their desire. They think “let us remain healthy so that we carry food to the mouth of the Supreme Lord.” This is their desire. Now we are thinking we will eat the best food. When this desire will change that we will not eat, but we will feed the Supreme Lord. That desire is welcome.] Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa?* [Transl. This is the picture. You read what is written there?]Indian man (1):
Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda:
No, no, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
No, no, no, no.

Indian man (1):
Rādhārāṇī, sorry.

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Indian man (1):
Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Indian man (1):
Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī.

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Indian man (1):
Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Indian man (1):
[Transl. Rādhārāṇi is very dear to Kṛṣṇa. So all the gopīs are pushing Her forward to Kṛṣṇa.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What happens in the world? They become jealous.] “Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her?” They become envious. But here: “Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her? All right.”

Indian man (1):
To please Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. The purpose is to please Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1):
[Transl. In order to please Kṛṣṇa the gopīs are pushing Rādhikājī forward. Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. So Mahārājajī says,] I am explaining in Hindi [to another guest]. [Transl. Kṛṣṇa has to be pleased. Kṛṣṇa has to be served.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Your question was what to desire? This is the desire. How Kṛṣṇa will be happy. The whole atmosphere of Vṛṇdāvana is how Kṛṣṇa will be happy. Yaśodāmayī wants that, Nanda Mahārāja wants that, the cowherd boys want that, the cows want that, the calves want, the trees want, the water wants, everyone wants Kṛṣṇa be the center.] That is Vṛndāvana. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that… Come in. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāre bali kāma [Cc. Ādi 4.165]. [Transl. This is the difference between kāma and prema. They look similar.] The gopīs’ līlā with Kṛṣṇa… [Transl. We see in this world there are many debauchees who enjoy with many girls.]

Indian man (1):
That is kāma.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is the difference? Here] the desire is “How Kṛṣṇa will be happy.” [Transl. And kāma means how I will be happy.]

ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā-tāre bali ‘kāma’
kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare ‘prema’ nāma
[Cc Ādi 4.165]

Indian man:
[Transl. Very good. To please Kṛṣṇa is called prema, and to satisfy our senses is called kāma. So kāma and prema are not same. There is distinction. When one satisfies Kṛṣṇa that is prema, and when we gratify our senses that is kāma]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That which is going on in this world in the name of prema, like a man and a woman, both of them want “How I will become happy.” The moment their personal sense gratification is obstructed, there is divorce. That is called kāma. In] the Western countries* [Transl. there are so many cases of divorce. As soon as there is dissatisfaction of lusty desires, they split. Finished.]

Indian man (1):
That is all sense gratification.

Prabhupāda:
That’s all. There is no prema. There cannot be any prema within this material world. All kāma. [Transl. All kāma. The jñānīs also, they want salvation. That is also kāma. They don’t care how Kṛṣṇa can be happy. The yogīs, they want “How we can achieve mystic perfection. Show some magic. Many people will come to us.” That is also kāma. And devotional service unto the Supreme Lord is prema.]

āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām
marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanāt
yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ
[Cc Antya 20.47, Śikṣāṣṭaka 8]

[Transl. The devotee prays, “My Lord, You behave with me as you please, but still You are the Lord of my life. yathā tathā … A debauchee does not behave properly with his wife, but the wife says “You behave as you like, but I don’t know anyone else except you. That is prema.]

Indian man (1):
This is prema.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Don’t want? “Okay, let us divorce. Finish. All over.] This picture has appealed to me, this picture, “Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī. Push Her.” [Transl. The Supreme Lord also wants it. sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ [Bg. 18.66] Surrender to Me. I will give you shelter.] This is prema, in the beginning of prema. [Transl. That is an opportunity to the process of devotional service. One is taught, “Look, here is the Lord’s arcā-mūrti. You decorate Him with your own hands. Prepare nice dress, nice flower garland. tan-mandira, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā [Śrī Gurv-aṣṭaka 3] Every day you worship the Deity by decorating Him in various ways and offering Him foodstuff. tan-mandira-mārjanādau. And cleanse His temple very nicely.” Anybody can do it. There is no need of education. Only one has to be taught. “Rise in the morning, offer maṅgala-ārati to the Supreme Lord and sweep and wash His temple. Then you decorate Him. You offer palatable foodstuff to the Lord.” Whole day.]

Indian man:
[Transl. From morning to night dedicate all your activities to the service of the Deity. That’s what Mahārājajī is saying. You offer maṅgala-ārati in the morning, Offer foodstuff to Him, decorate the Deity very nicely, Dress Him beautifully. In this way engage all your activities in the service of the Lord.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. This is been spoken in Hindi.]

Indian man:
[Transl. So much noise.]

Prabhupāda:
śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ ….arcanaṁ. This is called arcanaṁ. arcanam. arcā-mūrti-sevā. [Transl. In order to accept our service the Supreme Personality of Godhead, arcā-avatāra, has appeared as the Deity form. The foolish people will say “Look, how they are worshiping stone!” As if they are very learned! “patthar pūje hari mile to mai pūju pahāḍa or if by worshiping stone I attain Hari then I will worship a hill.”* [Poet Kabira]. Just see! Big, big ācāryas have estabilished big, big temples, for worshiping stone? Only foolish people speak like that. Some say “What is the need of going to the temple? God is everywhere. If God is everywhere then why He is not in the temple? They mean to say that God is everywhere except in the temple. Such a big fool! If God is everywhere then He is present also in the temple. It’s true that God is everywhere. aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ [Bs. 5.35] That is right. But one who has not yet come to that realization, he has to go to the temple. Look, here is God. And God is actually there. Worship Him, decorate Him, cleanse His temple.]

Indian man:
[Transl. Hold festival.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Hold festival. Honor His remnants prasāda. This is our Indian process. If you visit Jagannāth temple you will see they offer food to the Lord fifty-six times a day, even today. Not that just offer Him some cardamom seeds. Whoever visits can avail Prasāda. May be you have to buy, but you will get. It’s Prasāda. Ten to twenty thousand people go there every day and buy Prasāda whenever they want. Dāl, rice, subjī, purī, everything. Even today this is current at the Jagannāth temple. This is the procedure of our temple. Prasāda is available all the time.]

śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-
śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau
yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato ’pi
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
[Śrī Śrī-gurv-aṣṭaka 3]

[Transl. This is the duty of a Guru to teach all this. Worship the Lord’s Deity form very nicely. Let the temple always remain alive with offerings, āratis, cleanliness, kīrtan. śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ. Introduce all these things in your temples. All the time. Not that you have little lecture in the morning and that’s it. kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.]

Indian man:
[Transl. But Mahārāja, we have to go to the office, someone has to attend his business…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. If not all, everybody is not going to the office?]

Indian man:
[Transl. Not everyone.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. The brāhmaṇa doesn’t need to go to the office. Become a brāhmaṇa. The śūdras go to the office. True! paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44] Those who earn their livelihood by working for others, they are śūdras. You will have to consult śāstra. It is not śūdra’s job, it is brāhmaṇa’s job. Therefore the brāhmaṇas are given the duty of arcana. If a brāhmaṇa takes salary for his duty of worship then he too becomes a śūdra.]

Indian man:
[Transl. He can manage his expense from the donations that people offer to the Deity.]

Prabhupāda:
Han?

Indian man:
[Transl. The donations people offer he can use it for his own expenditure.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. For him that’s a trick to run the temple. You see it practically. We have got one hundred fifty temples throughout the world. And every day we have to feed ten thousand people at least. We have no such trick.] Thank you very much. [Transl. Go to any of our temple and see the standard of worship and service. Those gentlemen who visit our temple in England, they admit that the standard of worship and service and beautiful temple we find here is not found anywhere in India.]

Indian man:
[Transl. In your Vṛṇdāvana temple everything is very beautiful. I had darśana there.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. By your mercy we have no shortage. The Supreme Personality of Godhead provides everything. That is His duty. I pray to the Lord “I have carried on with these foreign mlecchas and yavanas. I have taught and trained them as far as possible. Rest You teach them and engage in Your service.]

Indian man:
[Transl. By your blessings they will certainly learn.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What more can I do? I give them initiation. I teach them everything. Then the Lord takes care of them. We have estabilished temples in Australia, Sydney. When I was returning from there I simply prayed to the Lord “My dear Lord, I am leaving You in the hands of these mlecchas and yavanas. You Yourself teach and train them. What more can I do?” Then next time when I went there, everything was so beautiful.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I have a photograph. Should I bring it? Sydney.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. [Transl. Everything is organized so nicely. Deity worship, classes, kīrtans. So the Supreme Lord teaches and trains.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
yena mām upayānti te
[Bg. 10.10]

[Transl. If a person wants to serve the Supreme Lord with love and devotion, He will give him necessary intelligence. “Dear child, do like this, do like this.” But we have declared, “God is formless. He cannot speak. He doesn’t know anything.” Finished. God has no form. Finished. The Supreme Lord says, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ. According to place, time, and candidate I give the intelligence. How then can a formless speak? This is going on. For a person who thinks the Deity is stone, He is stone. He will never speak also. And one who thinks He is directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, the son of the King of Vraja, He will talk with him. All this can be realized by bhakti. bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. [Bg. 18.55] That God talks, who can understand it? Only devotees. For others He is blocked. nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥnaham prakasa. [Bg. 7.25] Yogamāyā stops them. “You stay away here. You won’t understand.” Please come in. bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
All we had was this Melbourne photo. We don’t have the Sydney… We have the Melbourne Deities. Still, it’s nice.

Prabhupāda:
Melbourne and Sydney, white.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yes, I knew it was Australia.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is one of our temples in Australia, Melbourne. Now they accept,] a section of Americans, they are Hindus. [Transl. “Hindu American.” That’s why I am requesting all of you to understand this movement seriously. prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā [SB. 10.22.35] Then the whole world will become Hindu. That you all will not do. The word ‘Hindu’ is not found anywhere in the śastra. This is a name given by the Muslims. Actually, our culture is Vedic varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama-dharma can be reintroduced everywhere.]

Indian man:
[Transl. In Bhagavad-gītā the varṇas have been mentioned, but I think there is no mention about the āśramas. In Bhagavad-gītā?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. There is a mention about āśrama. kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā [Bg. 9.33] [Transl. That is āśrama. Brāhmaṇa, Kṣatriya, Vaiśya. The vaiśya is mentioned. Everything is there.] cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ [Bg. 4.13] First let there be varnas. First varṇa then āśrama. When varṇas are finished then what is the use of āśrama? The brāhmaṇas and kṣatrīyas require brahmacārī āśrama. Everything is arranged. For brāhmaṇas there are four āśramas, for kṣatriyas three āśramas, for vaiśyas two aśramas, and for śūdras one āśrama. Where are the brāhmaṇas? Who is a kṣatriya? Everything is empty.

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
[Bhagavad-gītā18.42]

[Transl. Now if we open a school or a college and say, “Please come. We will make you brāhmaṇa.” To become a brāhmaṇa what do I have to learn? Sama, dama, titikṣa, control the mind, control the senses, titiksa, practice tolerance, acquire knowledge and practical application of the knowledge. They will simply laugh it away. They will say, “By doing all this how will we survive?” Nobody will come? “Teach us technology. We will strike with hammer. We can earn a lot that way.”* [Transl. śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam* [Bg. 18.44] ...kalau śūdra sambhava. Does anyone want to become a brahmana? They will laugh. “What are you talking? Control the mind, don’t tell lies. How life will go on by doing all this? In every step we will have to tell lies, then only we can earn our livelihood. So what is the use of teaching us all this?” Who will become a brahmana? Then? cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ [Bg. 4.13] For namesake I am a brāhmaṇa, wearing a two paisa thread, finish, sutratve. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is written, vipratve sūtram eva hi [SB. 12.2.3] In Kali-yuga a two paisa worth of thread is the sign of a brāhmaṇa. vipratve sūtram eva hi. dāmpatye ’bhirucir hetur māyaiva vyāvahārike dampatye ratim. The relationship between a man and a woman will remain as long as there is sex life, rati. It is also written, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam [SB. 12.2.6]. In Kali-yuga by growing long hair a person will think “I have become very beautiful.”* [Transl. Just see. Only five thousand years ago all these things were written down. Most people grow long hair. lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. And all the low class people like śūdras, cobblers and so on, they will forcibly grab power and become king. They don’t need to learn the qualities of a kṣatriya. You understand? prajā hi lubdhai rājanyair nirghṛṇair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ [SB. 12.2.8] The government will be dacoits. Simply plunder. Right? anāvṛṣṭyā vinaṅkṣyanti durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ [SB. 12.2.9] ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam … anāvṛṣṭi, On one hand there will be no rain, on top of that durbhikṣa, there will be no foodgrains. And the government will impose heavy tax. As a result, people will be so harassed that they will leave everything and go away.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
It’s about 6:30 now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda:
Have saṅkīrtana.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Mahārājajī, there was a news recently that American government has started putting so many obstacles in the way of your preaching work?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So much. Created so many impediments. But not the government, but public. Rather the government has issued a judgment in our favour. High court. We were reading it the other day.]

Indian man:
[Transl. We were discussing the judgment yesterday, but I did not exactly know what was it about. I worked as a judge. That’s why I was very interested to know.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Oh! So you kindly translate it into Hindi for us.]

Indian man:
You have got a copy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
I have the original, not a copy.

Prabhupāda:
You can give him this.

Indian man:
If I… If I could have access to it?

Prabhupāda:
He’s a judge.

Indian man:
Yes, you can safely believe.

Indian man:
[Transl. Mahārajajī, is this a judgment from American government?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. From the High court.]

Indian man:
[Transl. The discussion took place yesterday,] but I couldn’t follow [Transl. what the matter was. I thought it was…

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. There are many legal terms in that judgment and only you people can translate those. I was also asking if there is any lawer or somebody.]

Indian man (2):
We should appreciate that he passed his judgment.

Indian man:
Legal terms. Legal terms. Who would like to deliver such judgment? Impartial judgment.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. It was the sheer mercy of the Supreme Lord that within one day the judgment was given.]

Indian man (2):
And every person has got right to…

Indian man (1):
Faith.

Indian man (2):
Faith.

Indian man (1):
Faith, yes, yes.

Indian man (2):
Not Christianity or not Hinduism. Anything you like.

Prabhupāda:
Not anything?

Indian man (2):
Not anything?

Prabhupāda:
Religion.

Indian man (2):
Religion.

Prabhupāda:
Not anything.

Indian man (2):
Everyone has right to follow.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. Every man has right to follow any, mean, established religion. And they have accepted this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is established religion in India for many thousands of years.

Indian man (1):
Only there should be no force.

Prabhupāda:
Hun?
Indian man:
[Transl. There should be no force.]

Prabhupāda:
There is no force. There is no force. Everyone is joining voluntarily. [Transl. By force how far can you go? Nothing works by force.]

Indian man:
[Transl. So Mahārāja, who actually objected, government or public?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Public. Come in.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Should we hold kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

[kīrtana begins] [end]