Evening Darśana

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We can’t trust how long it will go on.]

Indian man (1):
[Transl. In the hilly areas… usually in our plain cities electricity often goes off, but in the hilly areas there is storm, rain and other disturbances.]

Prabhupāda:
The thing is that we have to… Shall I speak in Hindi or in English? There are others…

Indian man (1):
Most of us, we can follow in English. You speak in English, we can follow.

Prabhupāda:
So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want… Just like England: there is no food, food grain. They have… Everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1].

Actually, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that “Indians are My sons.” Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]: “In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father.” So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they’ll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue to suffer.

[aside:] They have come to disturb.

So that philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting. This is the first time in the history of the world that foreigners, they are becoming devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Now, in the history of the world there was no temple outside India, neither devotee also.

Indian man (1):
The entire credit goes to you, sir.

Prabhupāda:
[chuckles] Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India’s glories will be magnified. But unfortunately, our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India’s glory and how India’s glory can be distributed. They are trying that India’s glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual…

So there are two sides. [aside:] Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the things. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nation will be formed. There will be no question of nationality. In the Bhagavad-gītā… Big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but is there any word as “nationalism”?

Indian man (1):
None.

Prabhupāda:
And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as “nationalism.” As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4]. Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that “I am student.” They do not understand even a line of. This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1):
Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Indian man (1):
Gandhijī believed in trusteeship theory of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda:
Trusteeship… Trustee… Who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1):
Or He’s the owner.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. So He’s the owner, and if you follow Kṛṣṇa, then you become trustee. You do not follow Kṛṣṇa; you are unworthy of trusteeship. You interpret in a different way Kṛṣṇa. Even sometimes you say that “Kṛṣṇa is fictitious.” Do you not do? Don’t you say like that?

Indian man (1):
No, not…

Indian man (2):
Very passing reference he made once.

Prabhupāda:
Why? That means he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (3):
Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Kṛṣṇa is fictitious?

Indian man (2):
Gandhi made…

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Gandhijī.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. It was written in “In search of the Supreme” by Mahatma Gandhi.]

Prabhupāda:
I don’t speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gītā and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? What right they have got?

Indian man:
[Transl. By your consideration the clear understanding will be revealed.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. By your consideration the situation of our political life will change, and rising above, the country will be able to understand the correct meaning of Bhagavad-gītā.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. There is no difficulty in understanding. Why are they ruining themselves and others by misinterpreting? This is our protest. The Supreme Lord Himself is saying] *Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ paran-tapa [Bg. 4.2]. Because the disciplic succession was disconnected, the science of the Supreme Lord was lost.] So paramparā, in the paramparā system, the system remains in order. And that is our way of life. Our… We are in India. These men have come newly under Western education, but we have got paramparā system, just like Rāmānuja’s paramparā, Madhvācārya’s paramparā, Viṣṇu Svāmī paramparā. Still there is. Śrī-sampradāya, Madhva-sampradāya, Viṣṇu Svāmī…

Indian man (1):
Disciplic succession.

Prabhupāda:
Succession, yes. So Kṛṣṇa said that the real truth is in the paramparā system. You cannot take anything and misinterpret. Then it is lost. Suppose from the very beginning of my life I have been taught by my father that this is called Dictaphone. Now, if I misinterpret in a different way, then it is lost. “Call a spade a spade.” And Kṛṣṇa very distinctly says that “Because that paramparā system is now lost, I am again speaking to you.” Purātana. Find out this word, purātana. Mayā te ’dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Why He is speaking purātana, not new definition? Boliye.

Devotee (1):
Should I read, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda:
Hmm?

Devotee (1):

sa evāyaṁ mayā te ’dya
yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ
bhakto ’si me sakhā ceti
rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam
[Bg. 4.3]

Prabhupāda:
This is the beginning.

Indian man (2):
Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupāda:
Read it again.

Devotee (1):
“That very ancient science of the relation…”

Prabhupāda:
No, no, that verse, śloka, you…

Devotee (1):
Sa evāyaṁ mayā te ’dya… [Bg. 4.3].

Prabhupāda:
Sa eva. Aham.

Devotee (1):
Mayā te ’dya yogaḥ…

Prabhupāda:
Mayā te ’dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that “Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in a new way.” There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. [Transl. Say what you have to say about that. Big, big Acāryas said, bhagavān uvāca.] Vyāsadeva says, *bhagavān uvāca. [Transl. And they say “We are greater than God.” So are they not rascals?] Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he’s a rascal. [Transl. This is the problem in India. They simply manufacture their respective ideas. But Kṛṣṇa says, yogah proktah puratanah.] Or this is also said there, that bhakto ’si priyo ’si [Bg. 4.3]. The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedāntist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedāntists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedāntist… He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedāntist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. [aside:] Hmm, don’t do it.

Indian man (1):
He was bhakta and sakhā.

Prabhupāda:
Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakhā, or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya… That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order… He was not even human being, animal, bāṅdar [monkey], not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped even now. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rāsa, in some relationship. That is bhakta.

So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakti. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They’ll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, “Here is a bottle of honey,” and if you, “Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle,” so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: “I am reading Bhagavad-gītā.” This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world—immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don’t. We manufacture. This is going on. [Transl. What is the remedy for this? Nothing. And we are struggling against this.] …yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don’t accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees of Kṛṣṇa.* [Transl. And in our country, to forget what have learned, it will take three hundred lifetimes.]

Indian man (4):
[Transl. Now it appears that by the endeavor of a great personality like you the present situation of our country may improve.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. It should improve, but we must understand clearly] …that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kurukṣetra is meant “body,” why you should bring in the name of Kurukṣetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre* is still there. Why Kurukṣetra should be interpreted as something else?

Indian man (1):
You have cautioned the reader in this translation.

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Indian man (1):
You have cautioned the reader to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that “Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom.” This is going on. [Transl. Stop all this and take Bhagavad-gītā as it is only. You will all be happy. This is our mission] This is our mission. Don’t manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Indian man (3):
This, all about nation, nationalness…

Prabhupāda:
First of all, there is no question of nationalism. It is all bogus.

Indian man (3):
No, that you have spoken. Our request is how best we can implement the teachings of Gītā in these critical days…

Prabhupāda:
It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3):
How to implement in our daily life…?

Prabhupāda:
You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gītā. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3):
I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda:
It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student—śiṣyas te ’haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]: “Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me.” Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: “So I can understand that I am puzzled that ‘How I can kill such enemies who are my family members?’ This is my problem.”

[aside:] [Transl. Here is a fly disturbing so much.]

Indian man (3):
There are two. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is the world, and we want to be happy here. The flies will come and kill you.] [laughter] And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantraṇā, three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that “Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned.”

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
[Bg. 2.11]

“You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned…?” This is the first. And then He said that “Actual person is within the body.” Dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam… [Bg. 2.13].

So as you are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? *Boliye. [Transl. Answer? What is your answer to this?] If you have to change your body… Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Trivikrama:
Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda:
This is going on. Today you are European; tomorrow you become Indian. And today you are man; tomorrow you become a dog. If you have got love for your country, but your work is doggish, then you become a dog. And who cares for the national dog? The street dog and the… At night he takes charge of the street. Nobody has appointed him, but he takes charge, and whole night: “Gow! Gow!” If somebody, new man, enters the neighborhood, “I am in charge.” You see? “Why you have entered?” So this is going on. “I am leader of this country.” So what is this civilization? Kṛṣṇa says that “I am the leader.” He says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]: “I am the leader. I am the friend, well-wisher of everyone.” And if a dog says, “I am the leader. I am the well-wisher,” so which way we shall go? I shall accept the dog as leader and well-wisher or Kṛṣṇa? Boliye. A barking dog or Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man (2):
Naturally Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: “I can adjust things.” So we are not taking it. [Transl. From all sides.] From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly clear. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ* [Bg. 2.13]. But one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned, if we understand Kṛṣṇa—then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9].

So that is the real problem. We are solving problems—this problem, that problem, that… They are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem, because the fly is meant for that purpose. How… You cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him. This is not problem, how to drive away the fly. The real problem, Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, that you are in the cycle of birth, death… Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You get another life and you suffer. Again you get another life. This is your problem. So that problem, Kṛṣṇa says, that “You can solve it. Simply try to understand Me.” Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham [Bg. 4.9]. That is our business. But we are being deviated from the real business, and we are being engaged in so-called this ism, that ism, that ism. This is spoiling the whole thing.

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya paran-tapa
māṁ aprāpya nivartante
mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
[Bg. 9.3]

This life, this human form of life, is meant for understanding the real problem of life and to solve it. This is the opportunity. And Kṛṣṇa personally coming to instruct you, “You solve in this way.” But we are so doggish, we will not take. What can be done? Then become a dog. Nature’s law will work. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo ’sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. If you remain doggish—you do not become a human being—then, all right, you become a dog next life. Tathā dehāntara-prā… Then take charge of the street and “Gow! Gow! Gow!” Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This… For this purpose we request every one of you that you study Bhagavad-gītā very seriously as it is, apply it in your practical life and teach it to others. That is perfection. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission. He says that “You become* guru *everyone.” [break] You simply repeat. Don’t misinterpret. Boliye. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s… Every one of you become a guru, not a bluffer, but a guru, real guru. “How real guru? I can become? I have no qualification.” Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]: “You simply take the words of Kṛṣṇa and preach.” Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7].

You simply repeat, “Sir, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being, God.” What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, “There is no superior authority than Me.” You simply say, “Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority.” That’s all. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām… You preach, “Come here in the temple. See Kṛṣṇa’s Deity and always think of Him.” Where is the difficulty? Now these Europeans and Americans, what I have done to them? I have not given any bribe. I say, “Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is God.” They accept it, worship Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Just if you cannot do anything, just offer one obeisances, namaskāra. Any child can do. They have done it, and they are going ahead. [Transl. Why are you not accepting it? Simply talk all nonsense.] Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa is there, perfect *upadeśa. [Transl. By interpreting and speculating all nonsense you are wasting your time and the time of others. This is going on. Stop all this. Whatever has happened has happened. Now put an end to this. And then] as Kṛṣṇa says, you try to assimilate it and distribute it. There is no diffi… [Transl. You give me credit, but in my credit there is no magic or jugglery. I don’t produce gold or show them magic.] Kṛṣṇa says, *mattaḥ parataraṁ nān… [Transl. Just to make people understand this fact I have written] eighty-four books, each book, four hundred pages, in ten years. And we are selling, collecting by selling book, five to six lakhs of rupees daily in foreign countries. What is that qualification? We have tried to convince people that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. All are Īśvaras, but parama īśvara, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ.] “The Supreme Being is Kṛṣṇa.” *Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. [Transl. Not formless. Not without a form.] Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. [Transl. It says vigraha. Vigraha means] form. Not formless. Formless is another feature, but real feature is Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam.

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa…
govindam ādi-puruṣam…
[Bs. 5.38]

The Govinda, Śyāmasundara, dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara. Here is the Supreme Being. Take His instruction. Always think of Him. You become perfect. Where is the difficulty? [Transl. Answer? Why do you create difficult position?] Why do you create difficult position? This is going on. [Transl. You want to show your expertise. “I am very expert. I am greater than Kṛṣṇa” This is going on. Show off one’s ability is going on.] Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, follow His instruction and be happy. [Transl. Say what you have to say about this.]

Indian man (4):
[Transl. So how will this showing off one’s ability will stop Gurudeva?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This show off, one way to remove it is to beat them up with shoes. This is going on by the arrangement of māyā. Yet they are so shameless even though they are being beaten by shoes they will say “What will be our loss? Nothing, rather you will break your shoes.”]

Indian man (1):
Shameless.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You beat him with shoes, and he will say “Nothing will happen to me, you will break your shoes.” How can you rectify such a person? He has such a mentality that you beat him with shoes and he says] “I don’t care for you.” [Transl. Doesn’t māyā beat you enough with shoes? It is māyā’s business only to beat with shoes. This is one way for which māyā has been sent. To beat up these hog-like people nicely. mama māyā, My energy. You cannot escape the hands of māyā.] Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he’s engaged, she’s engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām [Bg. 4.8]. So this is the difficulty. There was a big expert, Hiraṇyakaśipu! He was nicely and thoroughly beaten up with shoes. Finally all his expertise was smashed and he came back to his senses. This is the point. One way is to be beaten up by shoes. And the other way is] mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. [Transl. There is no other way for an over smart.]

Indian man:
(2) [Transl. Kindly shed some light on the topic of surrender Gurudeva.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Surrender is in your hands.]

Indian man:
(2) [Transl. In what way should we surrender? Does surrender mean not to utilize my intelligence? Whatever God says we act like that? Is that the meaning of surrender?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You don’t have intelligence. You are a rascal.]

Indian man:
You are right.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What is the use of a rascal’s intelligence? You give up your rascaldom and do what K???a says. If you say “I will not give up rascaldom and at the same time I will surrender to Kṛṣṇa.” That is not possible. First you give up your rascaldom and follow what Kṛṣṇa says. Finish.]

Indian man:
(2) [Transl. Please elaborate little more about surrender.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Surrender means to believe what Kṛṣṇa instructs.] sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Don’t manufacture nonsense things. [Transl. Give up rascaldom. Simply surrender to Him. This is in your hand. You will go away after manufacturing “This ism, that ism, that ism.” So you will have to give up this rascaldom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmanparityajya. You are very intelligent, you can create rascaldom-this ism, that ism. Give up all that. Now you see, the discussion of Bhagavad-gītā going on.] The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. [Transl. And we want to apply nonviolence. How is it possible? The Bhagavad-gītā spoken in the battlefield, in the very beginning it says] dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. The first word is [Transl. fight]. And you want to prove it, nonviolence. [Transl. Is it not rascaldom? Answer?] The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Desire to fight.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So? Fighting is nonviolence? What a grave sin!]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Arjuna also displayed oversmartness in the beginning.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Forget about Arjuna. First talk about your oversmartness. Your oversmartness is you interpret yuyutsavaḥ as nonviolence. Is it possible? Why do you want to show your oversmartness? Lying! You spoil yourself and others! Nonviolence in politics! Have you ever seen it in the History? Nor is it possible. Big, big kings, Kṣatriyas, they have to fight and kill. So they used to go for hunting in order to learn how to kill. Because, otherwise if he is suddenly asked to kill somebody, he cannot kill. So by killing small animals day by day they became used to it. Violence was taught.] Violence required to keep the society in order. [Transl. The brāhmaṇas are required, kṣatriyas are required, vaiśyas are required, and śūdras are required. cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. [Bg. 4.13] If there are only brāhmaṇas then] who will give protection? Everything is scientific. [Transl. We have abandoned that system, and by showing off our expertise we have ruined everything. This is what has happened. So our request is that give up your trickery and accept what Kṛṣṇa says. Then everything will be alright.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Sanjay Sāhāb also played a trick that there should be no caste-distinction. All are equal.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You are another. You address him Sāhāb? A Goonda or a Hooligan!]

Indian man:
[Transl. That’s why his trickery was over.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You are also like that. That’s why you call a Hooligan Sāhāb.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. He was very much against caste-distinction.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He was an upstart, childish, and a lascivious. And he was made India’s…]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Prime minister, eh, superworker.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Fortunately the Supreme Lord has saved us.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Really He saved. By your blessings we have been saved.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Actually I did pray to the Lord. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says in his Moral science viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca.] So “Don’t trust woman and politician.” This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance… We had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state…? Very, very qualified women. You know. na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ [Manu-saṁhitā]. For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband or under elderly sons. Three stages. Kuntī…

Indian man (5):
[Transl. pitā rakṣati kanyā* or the father protects the daughter.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. Until she is married she stays under the guidance of her father. Even twenty or twenty-five years ago this Indian system was current.] A young girl cannot go out without father’s, mother’s… She cannot mix with any other young man. Strictly prohibited. [Transl. All such rules and regulations are almost gone.] If you want to revive real Indian civilization or Vedic civilization for the good of the whole human society, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You’ll be happy. There is no doubt. [Transl. Stop all other tricks. All these upstart experts, self-made experts, stop all that. It’s written in the very beginning yuyutsavaḥ and they say nonviolence. What is this? Tell me?] Why do you try to undo something which is spoken by Bhagavān, Vyāsadeva? [Transl. If it was something else, couldn’t Vyāsadeva write it? Is He a fool? He compiled the Vedas! He wrote yuyutsavaḥ, and we say no, nonviolence. mahad-atikramaḥ or to transgress a great personality is a grave sin.The śāstra says] mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We are not following mahājana, but we are transgressing. [Transl. So how can we be happy? First of all we misled ourselves.]

[aside:] Bring. Bring cutting.

Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. And mahājanas are also mentioned,

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kapila kumāraḥ manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
[SB. 6.3.20]

[Transl. Everything is there. There is no difficulty.] We want to become artificially rascal, mahājana. That is going on. [Transl. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says] Sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]: “Whatever you have learned, forget.” Mām ekam. Because he has become too much bewildered, He doesn’t say anybody else. Mām ekam, word to the mūrkhas… Śaraṇaṁ vraja. [Transl. Do like that. What is the objection in it? Everybody is reading Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. Here also the Bhagavad-gītā is discussed, but where do they teach mām ekaṁ? Kṛṣṇa. Reply Mahārāja?]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. In the Svargāśrama, all the lectures are given on Bhagavad-gītā only. But nobody spoke about this.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. They don’t know only, yet they give lecture. It is very clear.] Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. [Transl. They think that Kṛṣṇa is just like one of us. If Kṛṣṇa can say something then we too can say something. This is the point. mūdha. paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. [Bg. 9.11] They don’t know Kṛṣṇa. They don’t know. What will they speak? That’s why in the beginning He said bhakto’si me [Bg. 4.3] one who knows Me, he can speak. Not everyone can speak. They simply waste time. If you abstract “nonviolence” from Bhagavad-gītā then what is the meaning of the first word “yuyutsavaḥ”? Answer? What is written in the śāstra has to be kept intact. If you strike off things whimsically from it then what is the meaning of Gītā? You present your own philosophy separately.] Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? The beginning, the first line, is yuyutsavaḥ. Where is nonviolence? [Transl. That’s why I was telling you that they don’t understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. And yet they supposed to be lecturing on Bhagavad-gītā? tathā dehāntara-prāptir [Bg. 2.13]

Indian man (6):
How can you fight a war and then be nonviolent at the same time?

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Indian man (6):
How is it possible to be nonviolent…

Prabhupāda:
Why you want nonviolence?

Indian man (6):
They are talking so much about nonviolence…

Prabhupāda:
Just like here is a mākkhi [fly]. Is it not violence sometimes to drive it then? There will be attack, and you have to protect yourself. This world is not like that, that there is no… It is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not…, you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They’ll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. [Transl. Don’t the robbers and dacoits come forcibly? Do you want thieves and dacoits come to your house and steal everything? But they still come.] How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Indian man (6):
What is meant by nonviolence?

Prabhupāda:
It has no meaning.

Indian man (6):
It has no meaning?

Prabhupāda:
Simply imagination, that’s all.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. We practice nonviolence that you do not become offensive to anyone. It is your duty to defend yourself. So just defend yourself.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. If you have to defend then you need violence. You keep soldiers and police. When there is too much wickedness you order to shoot. So you cannot abolish it. You can make proper use of it.] This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.

Indian man (7):
What is to world Mahatma Gandhi’s nonviolence or…

Prabhupāda:
I do not wish to discuss nonviolen… But we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Kṛṣṇa says, mām anusmara yudhya ca [Bg. 8.7].

Prabhupāda:
Yes. Yudhya ca. [Transl. Fighting is also required.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. The meaning of the word “yuddha” is…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yuddha* means fighting. But you have distorted it.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Don’t be violent. Yuddha means to carry out one’s daily activities properly.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yuddha* means fight. Why do you want to change it?]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. As it is.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is the oversmartness. “What is the meaning of yuddha?” Yuddha means yuddha- fighting. Why do you want to show off your trickery?]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. If not yuddha then He said “do karma.”]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then do something else. The word is there! Yuddha word is mentioned. It means yuddha or fight. What is the need of deriving another meaning? Meaning can be derived in such cases where the word is not clear] There is some word, the meaning is not clear, then you can suggest that “Meaning may be like this.” But when it is clear, there is no, I mean to say, chance of interpreting.

Indian man (1):
As, for example, vicāra, those such words which requires some clarification or…, these can be interpreted like…

Prabhupāda:
No, no, when it is clear, why it should be interpreted?

Indian man (1):
No, for other words…

Prabhupāda:
Other words… [Transl. Forget other words. First you answer this.] …that when it is clear—yudhya ca—then why should you interpret? The example is there in the Sanskrit grammar. Just like… The example is given, where interpretation required. It is said, example is given, like gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa-pallī, that “There is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pallī on the Ganges.” So then you can ask that “Gaṅgā is water. How there is a neighborhood?” Then the interpretation: “Not on the Ganges water but on the bank.”

Indian man (1):
[Transl. Situated on the bank.]

Prabhupāda:
Then interpretation. But when it is clear that “On the bank of the Ganges there is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali,” then where is interpretation? Interpretation will be required when the meaning is not clear. Otherwise, if the meaning is clear, that is* [Transl. masterstroke], to interpret. But in Bhagavad-gītā, in the first line, the word is used, yuyutsvaḥ, “desiring to fight.” So desiring to fight, they assembled; they must fight. So where is the question of interpretation? [aside:] So prasādam ready or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Yeah. About 6:30, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So let us stop here for today. Come again tomorrow and we will meet.]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
Every day there’ll be darśana, five to six. Every day.

Indian man (7):
[Transl. This hall doesn’t suit you? For Maharaja’s discourse.]

Prabhupāda:
Hmm? What is that?

Indian man (8):
There is a big hall here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
There’s a hall over here.

Indian man (8):
There is a big hall here where a lot of people can come, because lot of people want to listen you.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So you all make arrangement and we will come. We are here.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Then you will have to go there.]Indian man (8):
It is only fifty steps, hundred feet, yes, not more than that.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So as you want it will be done.]

Indian man (1):
[Transl. Arrangement has to be made.]

Indian man (8):
[Transl. In that hall at least 100/150 people…It’s little far.]

Indian man (1):
[Transl. Come tomorrow again.]

Indian man (2):
[Transl. There will be no kīrtana now?]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
It’s raining again.

Prabhupāda:
You have shown our books to these gentlemen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
We have a few books here.

Prabhupāda:
Hmm. You can show some of them.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Kīrtana* is very nice. Now it’s 6:15 only.]

Indian man (8):
[Transl. Kīrtana* can be performed now?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Do it.] You can perform kīrtana here.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. There is a hall here. It will be very nice there.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. In the hall?] So go to the hall and begin kīrtana immediately. You can go.

Indian man (2):
[Transl. Five to six is okay.]

Indian man (8):
Tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, five till six. So you can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (1):
Right now, right now. Gurujī said we can go to the… [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
[chuckling] You can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (7):
But we can start here also.

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Indian man (7):
Here for some time…

Prabhupāda:
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

[kīrtana begins] [break]

Prabhupāda:
Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Transl. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself comes to teach us how to be attached to Him. yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. [Bg. 4.7] This is the declination of religion. When our attachment to the Supreme Lord is lost, that is declination. tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. [Bg. 4.7] The Supreme Lord personally comes. paritranaya sadhunam vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8] But who cares for Him? If someone hears Him then his life will be successful. First of all they deny God by saying “He is formless. That’s all. The description of His forms is all imaginary.” This Akhaṇḍānanda, he says these are all imaginary. What did God do? What is His fault so that He has no form? The Supreme Lord says “I am the father of everyone.]

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
[Bg. 14.4]

[Transl. I am the seed giving father. So I am present with a form, but my father has no form. We have form. Did we dropped down from the sky? Is it possible that you have got form but your father has got no form? Is this possible? What a foolishness! The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the father of all. We have form but He has no form? This is going in your country. Is it reasonable? You will say “I haven’t seen Him.” You seen your grandfather and great grandfather. So were they formless? If it is said that your great grandfather had no form, will you accept it?

[Transl. So how will you see God? Even hogs and asses have form, but God has no form! Tell me what reply you have. You have been living here since thirty years. How can God be formless? Answer? This is going on. The Supreme Lord says manmana bhava mad bhakta. [Bg. 18.65] Always think of Me. If He has no form then how to fix the mind on Him? Hmm? My father has a form and I can think of him. But when there is no form then how can I think of? That’s why the Supreme Lord has said kleśo ’dhikataras teṣām [Bg. 12.5]

[Transl. Nobody can think of formless, but they forcibly want to do that. So they end up in miseries only. No other gain. “Meditate on formless”. It is not mentioned in the śāstra. The yogīs, those who are genuine, they don’t meditate on formless. They meditate on the Lord’s Visnu form within their hearts. dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino [SB. 12.13.1]

The Supreme Lord Himself says yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā [Bg. 6.47] [Transl. Forget all that. How can you meditate on the formless? Answer? There will be trouble only. No meditation, only trouble. The Lord says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] Who listens to Him? Everyone shows off their own mastery. Whatever is written in the śāstra, whatever the Supreme Lord says, you follow and everything will be alright. śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ This is the process.]

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
[SB. 7.5.23]

[Transl. Nine-fold devotional service. You asked a good question and this is the answer. If you follow the process, you will develop attachment quickly.

adau śraddhā tato sādhu-
saṅga atha bhajana-kriyā
tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt
tato niṣṭhā tataḥ rucis
athāsaktis
[Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.4.15]

[Transl. Attachment, first of all śraddhā or faith. The meaning of the word “śraddhā” is given by Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī as śraddhā’-śabde-viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya [Cc. Madhya 22.62] You understand Bengali little bit?]

Indian man (1):
[Transl. I can understand little.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. ādau śraddhā,* It should begin with śraddhā. What is śraddhā? The word ‘śraddhā’ is explained by Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī śraddhā’-śabde-viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya. When faith becomes firm, with full confidence, that is called śraddhā. That the Supreme Personality of Godhead is saying sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66] one who will accept this that whatever the Supreme Lord is saying is right, that is called śraddhā. The process starts from that point. If we don’t have faith that by following what the Supreme Lord says our life will become perfect, then where is śraddhā? There is no śraddhā. “Let God speak as He likes, I will do what I like. He is formless.” So such a person doesn’t have śraddhā in the first place. Adau śraddhā, what the Supreme Lord is saying is correct. We should follow it. Adau śraddhā. Then the śraddhā should be increased. Suppose someone wants to do a business. “I will do this business.” That is śraddhā. Then he has to associate with people who are already engaged in that business. Is it not? Therefore adau śraddhā tathā sādhu saṅga. And the definition of sādhu is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]

[Transl. He is a sādhu. A person who does not worship the Supreme Lord, he is a thief. So you should associate with a person who is engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. Sādhur eva sa. Others are not sādhu. Simply by keeping long beard one doesn’t become a sādhu. This is what the Supreme Lord says! bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ Such a person is sādhu. These considerations are there in the śāstra. Giving up scriptural injunctions and acting whimsically will not yield any result. The only gain will be that such persons will be regarded as religious. Dharmadhvajī [hyprocrite]. You saw flag? They carry a flag that “We are very pious.” Elsewhere the Supreme Lord says,]

yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
vartate kāma-kārataḥ
na sa siddhim avāpnoti
na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
[Bg. 16.23]

[Transl. One who abandons the scriptural injunctions and works whimsically, he will never attain perfection of life. Na siddhim avāpnoti, na sukhaṁ, neither will he achieve happiness. Na parām gatim, leave alone the supreme destination. So the Supreme Lord personally comes and instructs “Do like this”. And the devotees of the Lord are practicing accordingly. That is sādhu-saṅga, and learn from them bhajana-kriyā or how to follow the rules and regulations of devotional services. Then comes anartha nivṛttiḥ. All those causes because of which the unwanted things have accumulated in the heart will be vanquished. Then comes niṣthā, ruci, then āsakti. That is the stage.] [end]