Evening Darśana

Prabhupāda:
How do they speak there is no soul? What is the reason?

Acyutānanda:
Their reason is they cannot see the soul.

Prabhupāda:
Then they have no intelligence. Mūḍha.

Acyutānanda:
When we dig a hole here and there’s water, within a few weeks there’s fish and frogs. They say that is…

Prabhupāda:
Jalajā. First jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi [Padma Purāṇa]. Not only one variety, but nine lakhs of varieties they come out from the water.

Acyutānanda:
But where do they come? They’re in the water, latent in the water.

Prabhupāda:
There are life. Sarva-ga. Therefore we say that “Why not in the fire?” If there is life in water, why not in the fire? You cannot see. You have no eyes. There is life, and Kṛṣṇa says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ [Bg. 2.23]. Fire does not burn the living being, so why they will be not in fire? And Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham [Bg. 4.1]. He entered the sun planet.

Acyutānanda:
So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupāda:
No, there is no question of dividing

Acyutānanda:
Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda:
Sanātana. That is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Sanātana means eternally they are divided. And Kṛṣṇa says further in the Second Chapter that…

Hari-śauri:
Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam [Bg. 2.12].

Prabhupāda:
Yes. “You, Me and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me and… They’re existing now, and they’ll continue to exist.” So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa’s body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They’re not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, “finger of Swāmījī” or somebody. It is not anything… But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this screw [machine], it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw.

So our position is like that.

kṛṣṇa-bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
[Prema-vivarta 6.2]

As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṇa to become independent, that is māyā. He has…, loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with māyā, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water, and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes…, like that. So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with māyā, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life—and suffer. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari’ nānā abhilāṣa. [Prārthanā Song 6, Śrīla Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura]

And that abhilāṣa is the agitation. The same example, that, is given. Moon is sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes broken, sometimes… It is nothing. It is neither broken, neither round, nor… It is. It is as it is. But on account of agitation of the material body, it appears sometimes demigod, sometimes man, sometimes hog, sometimes cat—change, change of the body, 8,400,000 different change.

[aside:] You can keep it there. All right.

We have to stop this change, and that is the mission of human life: no more cat, no more dog, no more demigod, but eternally servitor of Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boys and gopīs, or whatever you like. As trees, as calves, as cows, as Yamunā water, as Vṛndāvana-bhūmi—everything spiritual. Enjoy. Somebody’s enjoying spiritual happiness by becoming Yamunā water. Somebody’s enjoying as flower of Vṛndāvana, somebody as calf, somebody as cow, somebody as father, as mother, as friend, as conjugal friend, gopīs—all concentrated in Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. Center is Kṛṣṇa. Yaśodā-nandana… What is that? Braja-jana-rañjana… Huh?

Hari-śauri:
Gokula-rañjana…

Prabhupāda:
Yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. Rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī, yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. [Gītāvalī Song 4, by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura] So Yamunā is spiritual. Yāmuna-tīra is spiritual. The varieties, the Māyāvādī cannot understand. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB. 10.2.32]. They want varieties, but don’t accept spiritual variety. Therefore again material life. No other alternative. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti. Again material varieties, philanthropic work, political work, this work, that work. First of all they give up—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, the jagan mithyā. And again they come out to open school. Why you come here again? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param…, patanty adhaḥ. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. They could not capture the spiritual varieties. Anādṛta. As soon as there is spiritual varieties, they think it is māyā. That is Māyāvāda. There is no māyā. Spiritual variety, there is no māyā. Variety is the mother of enjoyment.

[others enter—Bengali with guests]

[Transl. Please come. Have our Dasagupta work hard in the translation.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Yes, he has done quite a few.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. He is very talented person. That service is suitable for him. Besides that, he is an old man, so let him sit down and do that work.] Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya. [Bg. 18.46] [Transl. Whatever capacity one has got if he simply uses it for the service of the Supreme Lord, his life will be successful.]

Indian man:
Operation Kṛṣṇa consciousness and destination Vaikuṇṭha.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. [Transl. Whatever qualification one may have…that’s what I was just explaining. Someone has become a cow, or a calf, or a flower, or water, or land, or mother, father, friend, anything, you simply engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means variety.] Multi-varieties, all spiritual. Ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ… [Bs. 5.37]. [Transl. All are expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are not ordinary.]

There is nothing material. Everything ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Just like Brahmā took away—again He expanded. For one year nobody could understand that it is all expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has become calf, Kṛṣṇa has become cow, Kṛṣṇa has become a cowherd boy—everything. Then Brahmā saw, “Oh, I have done mistake.” He can immediately expand into many thousands forms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam… [Bs. 5.33]. Hmm. What is that clipping? Go on reading.

Satsvarūpa:
A number of clippings. This is a headline, that a new president, Carter, pardons draft evaders.

Prabhupāda:
Huh? Carter?

Satsvarūpa:
Previously there were so many young men in America who evaded the draft during the Vietnam war, and the government was looking for them. But now the new president is saying, “Let us forget the past. I forgive all these draft evaders. Let them come out and be good citizens.”

Acyutānanda:
Because if they have another war, nobody will go and fight that war again. They will all leave America. So they want America to be very good now, so that everyone will love America and come back. Because if there’s another war nobody will join the army. They’ll just leave.

Prabhupāda:
So why there is war? They cannot stop war?

Acyutānanda:
They start wars. [Prabhupāda chuckles] And in the chaos they make profit.

Prabhupāda:
That means there are many like you.

Acyutānanda:
Yes. [Prabhupāda chuckling] They’re all in Canada, Mexico.

Prabhupāda:
And Canada give them good shelter.

Acyutānanda:
Yes.

Prabhupāda:
People is proud to give American shelter. Is it not?

Acyutānanda:
Yes.

Prabhupāda:
What other?

Satsvarūpa:
This is an article… This is not very new. I don’t know where all these articles came from, but it’s about our movement in Chicago. It says, “The path of Kṛṣṇa is like a sharpened razor. Whether selling incense or salvation, this band refuses to split hairs.” [laughter] “Uncompromising,” it describes us.

Prabhupāda:
That is Kali’s sign. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam [SB. 12.2.6]. Five thousand years ago it was predicted, and now it is happening. Just see. This is śāstra. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. “Younger generation will think by keeping long hair they have become beautiful.” It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi: “Marriage means sex life.” As soon as there is disturbance in rati, it is divorce.

Satsvarūpa:
This is very old. This is two years old. “The deep roots of India’s food plight.”

Prabhupāda:
That’s not… New…

Acyutānanda:
I think India has the whole world fooled, thinking that they have no food, so that they can get aid. Actually there is… Everywhere I go, there’s more than enough food. Even if people don’t give money, they give food. And the hippies come to India because they get food. There’s so much food in India. Everyone will feed you, all the people.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. We are feeding. We want to feed more.

Acyutānanda:
But they make propaganda that they’re starving to the whole world, that “We’re starving nation,” and they get aid. Powdered milk… Powdered milk is sold, though. Government takes that, and they sell it.

Prabhupāda:
All right, let us preach. That is our only business. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. [Transl. After “Bhagavānera Kathā” what others books are being printed?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Bhāgavad Darśana* is coming out.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Hmm. Bhagavad Darśana is a Magazine. What about books?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Book, “Bhakti Kathā” will be published. That’s a collection of articles you wrote in Gauḍīya Patrikā in 1951.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Are you editing those? No?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. No, they are as it is.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Same, as it is.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. I only added some sub-titles in that. Is that all right?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. They are good.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Next coming up is a song book. In that, as you said, a chapter entitled “Sādhu-saṅga” will be included. There is an article called “Sādhu-saṅga” written by Śrīla Bhakti Vinoda Ṭhākura in Gauḍīya Patrikā. Should we include that?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Eh? Include.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Along with that a few chapters from “The Necter Of Devotion” regarding this topics have been added in the song book with Bengali translation.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Very good.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Then Mr. Dasagupta’s “Śikṣāṣṭakam” will be published. He has translated himself. For now these books we are publishing.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Mr. Mitra was here with his family? He did a portion of Bhagavad-gītā. Did you see him?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Was there anybody by the name Mr. Mitra?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Name. I forgot his full name.]

Indian guest:
[Transl. When you went to abroad, Tatpara was here.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. Yes.]

Hari-sauri:
Mitra, the Journalist.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. Yes.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Prasuna Mitra?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. Prasuna.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. When I was here I saw him last in Calcutta. He said he will go to Vṛndāvana or Delhi.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Can you find him out?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. I will try.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That person was very qualified.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Yes.]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. You have his address?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. He was here with his wife and a child.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What was the trouble here? Why did he leave? He did not ask me anything.] If you can find out, bring him some way or other. He is very qualified man, but he’s misguided. I think he did not like to live separate from his wife. That is his demands, maybe.

Subhāga:
[Transl. Prabhupāda, you brought him from States.]

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Subhāga:
[Transl. You brought him from America.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Not America, Calcutta… he belongs to Bengal.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Shyambati. He used to come from America and do this work.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Hmm. He was very qualified.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. He told me he would write me from Vṛndāvana. But so far I haven’t received any letter from him.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Somehow or other bring him back. I will surely keep him here under control.] Very qualified man.

Pradyumna:
Yes. English, Hindi, Bengali…

Prabhupāda:
Oh, yes. And he wanted to live with me. So what happened to him?

Subhāga:
[Transl. Jayapatākā Mahārāja might know something. He can tell if we ask.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Anyhow, If you can bring him back somehow or other, whatever he wants, we can give him and he can live peacefully. Now we want some Bengali literatures. Bengali, Hindi.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Prabhupāda, see this is his writing.]

Prabhupāda:
Hmm. Hmm.

Subhāga:
[Transl. This writing. I checked thoroughly. It’s vey nice. Wonderful writing.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He has command over language.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. He has command over language.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Just by seeing this it is understood that…]

Subhāga:
[Transl. He has got command.]

Prabhupāda:
…He has got command on the right. [Transl. Okay, You do afresh.]

Subhāga:
Is this the old edition

Pradyumna:
No. It’s new edition.

Bhakti-cāru:
It’s an old edition

Pradyumna:
It’s an old?

Prabhupāda:
You find out that man.

Subhāga:
[Transl. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Where did you see him?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. In Calcutta. When Jayapatākā Maharaja and I were coming here on Sunday, he arrived there to go somewhere else.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Where was he?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. In the temple.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He was in the Calcutta temple only?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. May be just for tonight, or may be for a day or two. He wanted to go to Vṛndāvana or Delhi.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. When did you meet him?]

Bhakti-cāru:
[Transl. Not with Ratha-yātra?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. I can’t remember exactly. About six months. He said “I am going to Delhi. There will be an ISKCON press in Delhi. I will stay in the guest house in Vṛndāvana for a few days. You write me there.“I said “Yes I will suggest.” One cannot see Prabhupāda very often.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Where to get the exact news?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. From those who were in direct contact with him.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You get his address.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Yes, I will.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I think he drinks wine or something.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Drinks. He lives in the States, so must be drinking whiskey etc.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That’s why he could not stay. You can make out from his body language. Drink. He could not do that here. No tea, no drinking…]

Subhāga:
[Transl. No bīḍī or Cigarette.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. … no smoking.] It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa [SB. 6.1.13]. Tapasyā begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means “no,” so many. No “yes.” Only “no’s.” “Not this, not this, not this.” It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: “How our sons have accepted so many ‘no’s’ unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he’s controlling their mind, independence. Bās. Deprogram. Capture them.” This is the… “How our sons can accept so many ‘no’s’? “ And important items—no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication. Everything, life, is no. [laughs] Rāyarāma said, “It is simply ‘no’s.’ “ He left. What is their daily necessity, and all “no.”

The same thing is happening now, that “How they have accepted the ‘no’s’? It is brainwash, mind control.” Lord Zetland said, when he was offered these “no’s,” he said, “Impossible for us. We cannot give up this.” And I was also thinking in the beginning, that “As soon as I propose this ‘no’s,’ they will say, ‘Go home.’ [laughs] No more preaching.” And it is Kṛṣṇa’s desire, they accepted so many ‘no’s.’ I was not hopeful that these American young boys or gentlemen will accept these ‘no’s,’ because I heardLord Zetland said, “It is impossible.” If they go to a…, one goes to a restaurant, he must find out one illicit woman. Is it not? It is not the practice, that they should go to a restaurant with one girl? Otherwise he’s vagabond. [Transl. Just to play around. You didn’t tally these things?]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Yes it is.]

Prabhupāda:
He was ten years in London. [Transl. Yes. He knows.] He has good experience in villages.

[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. [Transl. How are you?] Sit down. Sit down.

[long pause]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. Guru Maharaja, Up to last year I have built your gate and did other works. Then for what reason this poor man has been deprived from your lotus feet I could not understand. So that I may again get a place at your lotus feet kindly do something about it.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Tell me what is the matter.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. That means you used to perform different works here.]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. I am Golam Mistry, I constructed your gates, boundaries in this same building you live. Ground and first floor. Then for some reason me and my wife were removed from the work. Therefore I request you to again give us a chance at your lotus feet…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I have to know the reason for which you were deprived. Those who are supervising you, they have to be asked what happened? I don’t know anything.]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. That’s what I am requesting at your lotus feet. You please find it out and make some arrangement so that I can again get a place at your lotus feet.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Let Jayapatākā come and we will discuss in front of him. We have no discrimination like Hindu, Muslim, Christian. We love everybody.]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. Therefore I came at your feet.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Did you know this fact?]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. Yes. According to my realization we all are overwhelmed by your impartial behavior. In your society there is no consideration of caste, religion…]

[break]

Prabhupāda:
“…that “You cannot become happy without Me. Therefore I advise you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], aham tvāṁ sarva-pā…* I’ll give you…”

[break] Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. [Vaiṣṇava Poet Dvija Hari Dāsa] There*fore only intelligent person is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. All fools. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13].[Transl. Your people are all experienced. They should work very nicely, otherwise you remove them. Whatever hard work they will do they will get money. Be satisfied with that. If you want more you won’t get it. You won’t get. On the contrary you will end up commiting a crime. And you get no profit.]

teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate
nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām
[SB. 10.14.4]

[Transl. Those who do not know they beat the husk with the husking machine. What will you get by beating the husk? Will you get any rice paddy? Simply useless hard labor. The rice paddy which has no rice in it, only husk, will you get rice by beating it? Will you?]

Golam Mistry:
[Transl. No.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then it’s a useless labor only and nothing else. Those who are thinking that by illegal means they will change their luck, they are doing like that, simply beating the husk.]

[break] Dainika or Daily, what is that?

Subhāga:
[Transl. “Nadiya Prakasa.” [Newspaper.]]

Prabhupāda:
If he, that time, one paisa, [laughs] if he could collect two annas, oh, he [Śrīla Bhakti Siddhānta Sarasvati Ṭhākura.] would encourage him like anything.

Indian man:
Eight paisa. Two annas, eight paisa.

Prabhupāda:
Former paisa, when sixty-four paisa was one rupee. Now hundred n.p. equal to one. The purchasing power of money was big. Now thirty percent has gone up, but people’s income has not gone up so much. Thirty percent, thirty times. Formerly gold was priced twenty rupees per tolā. Now it is six hundred rupees. So thirty times. But people have not increased their income thirty times. My father was earning two hundred fifty to three hundred per month. So we were middle class. So now thirty times of three hundred means nine thousand. So which middle-class man has increased so much? Middle-class man now, if he’s earning one thousand rupees he’s considered very well-to-do. But what is that one thousand rupees? Nothing. My father had from one business, one hundred rupees, from another business sixty rupees, and we had a house rented, eighty rupees. Eighty rupees, sixty rupees and hundred rupees. How much?

Devotee:
Two hundred and forty.

Prabhupāda:
Two hundred forty, plus something more. Utmost, three hundred. And in our house four, five guests was always present. It didn’t matter. Besides that, he was inviting some Vaiṣṇava, some sādhu. He married four daughters, and we were eating very sumptuously, daily two and half kg milk. Two annas per kg. Very nice milk. This man was coming from outside Calcutta. So we were so many children. We would stand, “Give some phāo.” Two half kg’s milk and half kg phāo. He wouldn’t mind.

Indian man:
Half kg, three, phāo?

Prabhupāda:
[laughs] Because we are so many children, little, little, little. Krishna was asking for phāo. That is the system in India. You purchase something from some vendor and ask little more phāo. He’ll give. That is included in the price. [Transl. You don’t have the experience of] phāo? Especially children, they’ll ask, “Phāo dāo or give extra.” They’ll give gladly.

Subhāga:
[Transl. Prabhupāda, some guests want to see you.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Come.] Ask them to come inside. [Transl. Sit down. Sit down here. Sit up here.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. Come. Come inside.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Come inside. Let others come in.]

Indian guest:
[Transl. Okay.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. You also come inside.]

Indian guest:
[Transl. I am fine here.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. If you sit by the door it will block the passage.]

Subhāga:
[Transl. If you sit at the door there will be inconvinence. Come little inside.]

Indian guest:
[Transl. We will leave soon.] [end]