Conversation at the Gītā Pratiṣṭhāna [Conference]

Prabhupāda:
That Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]: “This science of Bhagavad-gītā, I spoke to the sun-god millions of years ago.” By the calculation it is forty millions of years ago. Now who will believe that, that Kṛṣṇa spoke this Bhagavad-gītā forty millions of years ago to the sun-god? Hmm? Who will believe that? They’ll say mythology. So where is the faith in Bhagavad-gītā and faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa? Understanding Hamlet without Hamlet. [indistinct] You cannot make your interpretation that whatever is written there, I take instead of…, I take… [coughing] That is not the way of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. Then from the very beginning you’ll spoil it. Then what is the meaning of preaching Bhagavad-gītā? If you do not accept the direction of the author, then what right you have got to say that you have understood Bhagavad-gītā?

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Could it be that there may be different interpretations?

Prabhupāda:
No, that is not possible. That is not the process. You cannot interpret Bhagavad-gītā. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, you must preach what Kṛṣṇa has said. If you have got a different philosophy, you can say differently. You don’t cheat people that you take Bhagavad-gītā and interpret in your own way and cheat others and be cheated yourself. You cannot do that.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Well, for example, Tilak Maharaja…

Prabhupāda:
Tilak may be, Gandhi may be, whoever may be. But the point is that you have to understand Bhagavad-gītā according to the direction of the author. Because you are Mr. Tilak or Mr. Gandhi, you can do everything on Bhagavad-gītā…

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
No, no, that is not the idea. But there are different type ślokas.

Prabhupāda:
Now how you have got a different types of… Let me explain. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā begins, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. So dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre, how you can interpret in a different way? Kurukṣetra is already there. But how you can interpret, “Kurukṣetra means this, Kurukṣetra means that”? You cannot interpret.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Yes, but who is decided what exactly the meaning…

Prabhupāda:
Exactly the meaning is there.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Literal, literally.

Prabhupāda:
Literally, yes. The thing is, the interpretation is required when you cannot understand. If…, if I say, “This is a stick,” everyone knows it is a stick. So I say, “Here is a stick.” So if you say, “No, I do not accept it is stick,” so what is that interpretation? Everyone knows it is stick. Similarly, Kurukṣetra means that the place, still existing. And in the Vedic śāstra it is ordered, kurukṣetre dharma yajayet. “If anyone wants to perform religious rites, he should go to Kurukṣetra.”

You go… From time immemorial it is a place of pilgrimage. Even Kṛṣṇa, during solar eclipse, Kṛṣṇa with His family, He came there, Jagannātha. The ceremony is there, Ratha-yātrā. Because Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadra came in the same chariot, that is being performed. So Kurukṣetra, dharmakṣetra, at least five thousand years ago the system was that people used to come to Kurukṣetra as a place of pilgrimage, dharmakṣetra. And Kurukṣetra, the place is there. And the Mahābhārata history two family members, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, they fought. The Battle of Kurukṣetra took place. These things are evident. Then why there is need of interpreting? That is the first point.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Those points are very clear.

Prabhupāda:
Every point is very clear. In the Bhagavad-gītā, every point is very clear, unless you interpret it in the wrong way.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Svāmījī, I have one question. We were just discussing before you came whther there is need and possibility of coordination of work between different institutions for…

Prabhupāda:
But how it can be coordination? If you interpret in your own way, you interpret in your own way, you interpret, then where is coordination? Best thing is that take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there will be coordination. Why you should interpret? You have no right to interpret on the words of Bhagavad-gītā.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
But Svāmījī, you have also written so much literature on this. That is an interpretation.

Prabhupāda:
No, that is not interpretation. That is explanation. Interpretation, if I change Kurukṣetra into something else, that is interpretation. That is wisdom. That is wisdom.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
This controversy is not there as far as this discussion goes.

Prabhupāda:
No, I mean to say, instead of collecting so many hundreds and thousands of literature on the Bhagavad-gītā, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is? What is the difficulty? Kurukṣetra is this position is fact. Mahābhārata, Mahābhārata means greater India. And that is, it is itihasa. It is called itihāsa. Itihāsa, if you don’t believe that there was a battle in the Kurukṣetra… But that is the fact. It is the history. Then how you can finish[?] Bhagavad-Gītā?

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
This controversy is not there as far as this discussion goes.

Prabhupāda:
Every point you take Bhagavad-gītā, it is clear. It is clear. There is no need of interpretation. That is the first thing. If you interpret you spoil the whole thing. That’s all. Because interpretation is required when the things are not clear. If everything is clear, why should you interpret?

Guest (1):
Basically there is no difference of opinion.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
No, it is explanation I think.

Prabhupāda:
Explanation, you cannot explain that Kurukṣetra means this, dharmakṣetra means this, Pāṇḍava means this. Why?

Guest:
No, no. Whenever you translate something from one language to another there is always…So far the Sanskrit version is concerned…

Prabhupāda:
Take Sanskrit. Take Sanskrit. Dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre. Do not require to go any other language. Take Sanskrit. Kurukṣetra is clear, dharmakṣetra is clear, Pāṇḍava is clear. Then why should we interpret? Why not take the particular verse. Everything, when there is a chance, then please do not try to translate and show your foolishness. If there is such chance that by translating the whole thing will be changed, then what is the use of such translation?

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Then take the Sanskrit. That is the basic.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you read Bhagavad-gītā. If there is such chance that if I interpret then the whole thing will be changed. This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don’t do this cheating work. You preach your philosophy, you are at liberty. You can preach any philosophy you like, but don’t take Bhagavad-gītā and do this nonsense. That is my first point. That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove this is that all over the world they are accepting. Before me for 200 years there was preaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Not a single person became… It is the history of the devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Now you see thousands. Why? Because there is no interpretation. There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, “I am the Supreme.” Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7].

We are presenting, “Here is God.” You are searching after God, here is God, and they are accepting. They do not heard, what is Kṛṣṇa. How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just see! They have tilaka, śikhā, Brahmin thread.They have given up past habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. And one who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15].

We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That’s it. We are fools and rascals, we have no much education. But we take Kṛṣṇa’s word that “Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta.” So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā as Kṛṣṇa says, then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then it will be accepted. If you are not prepared to do that, then however you make combination, or coordination and interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result will be zero. That’s all. This is practical.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
No, we did not discuss any differences. If we take it as the…

Prabhupāda:
If there is no difference, then why there are so many interpretations of Bhagavad-gītā? There is no need of…

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
No interpretation, but in different words they explain the same thing.

Prabhupāda:
No. No.

Girirāja:
They say different things.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
They say different things.

Guest 1:
[Transl. You are right, because one should present one’s view in one’s own way.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then there will be benefit. If it is milk you serve milk. What’s the use of serving it by mixing some water?]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. There is difference in everything. I ask you, in our childhood we read “Gītā- rahasya” by Tilak Mahārāja.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Let me answer. In childhood you don’t have the qualification to read Bhagavad-gītā. I tell you. In your childhood you might have seen Bhagavad-gītā and read it …But the Supreme Lord is saying, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. [Bg. 4.2] This is meant for saintly kings. It is not for foolish people. In childhood you are innocent. If you explain to them they won’t understand.]

Indian lady:
[Indistinct]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. You have to teach them Bhāgavata dharma.]

kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
[SB. 7.6.1]

What is Bhāgavata dharma? Do you know what is Bhāgavata dharma? Answer? Kaumāra means young boy, and it is not that because he is young boy he will learn. He has to be taught. That same Bhāgavata dharma the Supreme Lord is teaching. That I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead,

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
[Bg. 18.66]

This is Bhāgavata dharma. Otherwise for the Supreme Lord what need is there to declare sarva dharmān parityajya? There is no other dharma. The only dharma is Bhāgavata dharma.]

Indian lady:
[Transl. They have to be taught.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That’s why I said that first you learn then they will preach.]

Indian lady:
[Transl. There are so many [indistinct]]

Prabhupāda:
So many [indistinct], that’s all right, But if you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, you have to do like that.

Indian lady:
[Transl. There are so many… just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu was there. Someone else may come also. How can you say that…—yelling]

Prabhupāda:
[angry] I don’t say Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I say Kṛṣṇa. Why you misunderstand? Don’t talk like that. I don’t say that. Why you have misunderstood? Don’t disturb in that way. I don’t say Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why you are bringing Caitanya? You are bringing. I say what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that.

Indian lady:
I said there are so many leaders…

Prabhupāda:
So why you shall go to so many leaders? Why not go to the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa?

Indian lady:
They wanted same what Kṛṣṇa said.

Prabhupāda:
If you explain, that is another… But interpretation I am speaking.

Guest:
The difference between interpretation and information…That is the basic symptom of it. And I think he made it clear that as far as interpretation of Gītā is concerned that should not be done. They should take Gītā as such by itself and our thinking should not be imposed on Gītā’s teaching or what Kṛṣṇa is saying. Explanation off course we can do, but we go to the people or we go to public. That is his point of view. That very well put and said. But then Svāmījī we have little time we want your guidance that is regarding…

Prabhupāda:
That guidance is already there. What Kṛṣṇa says, you say.

Guest:
No, that is all right. Not to go further. As in organization level as we told you what we had discussed this morning we want to know your views on those points.

Prabhupāda:
Now what is the first point?

Jagadīśa:
“To collect all available materials and survey all institutions in India and abroad who are doing work based on Bhagavad-gītā so that we will have completely up-to-date library.”

Prabhupāda:
So I say what is the need of collecting? What Bhagavad-gītās you have got?

Guest:
For information.

Prabhupāda:
Information… Bhagavad-gītā, take information from Bhagavad-gītā. What others have said you have nothing to do.

Guest:
Now, for example, we should have all the literatures published by you. We should have all the literatures on Gītā published by The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement.

Prabhupāda:
Then there will be no limit. There are so many, 600,000 interpretations. Then your life will be spend [indistinct] for collecting.

Devotee:
If I want to go to Bombay, I must have the correct timetable, not a false timetable.

Prabhupāda:
Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa… Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as *guru. Śiṣyas te ’ham: [Bg. 2.7] “Now I don’t want to talk or argue with You,” because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru on the same level. Whatever guru says, you have to accept. Otherwise don’t accept guru. Don’t make a fashion of making guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select the guru. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34].

You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te ’haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. I am prapanna “I have surrendered to You.” This is the first instance [instruction?]. That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi [Bg. 10.14]. This is the position. Not that you make cut and trim. That is the process. Here is the paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is speaking Arjuna, and Arjuna is accepting, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi. There is no clip and trim. “Whatever You have said.” Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. “You have said that You are the Supreme, parabrahma. I accept it.” This is paramparā.

So we have not seen Kṛṣṇa talking, but the words are there. So Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the para brahma. I accept Kṛṣṇa as the parabrahma. That is guru-paramparā. So first of all we have to accept by the paramparā system. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ paran-tapa. “That paramparā is now lost,” Kṛṣṇa says. “Therefore I am speaking to you again age-old philosophy. Purātana.” Not that new. Purātana. And now you take. How Arjuna has accepted? Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye [Bg. 10.14]. [Transl. No. No. Whatever whimsically I am thinking I will accept, and rest I will chop, trim and throw away.] That is not Bhagavad-gītā study. You take paramparā system, you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as Arjuna has understood. That is paramparā. Otherwise it is futile. There is no meaning. But if anyone has accepted the paramparā system as Arjuna has understood, then he can speak on Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise he has no right to speak anything on the Bhagavad-gītā. That is paramparā system.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Yes. You are through to the point. Tell other points. What about others? Example, holding an all- India Conference that people should gather together…]

Prabhupāda:
But All-India Conference, it is not for mass understanding. Kṛṣṇa said yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. Śreṣṭhaḥ people, the leaders of society, rājarṣayo. Not ordinary politicians. Rāja and ṛṣi, he must be just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are rājarṣi. They are saintly persons, but they are governor. Such persons should understand. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ tad tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg. 3.21]. If the śreṣṭha person understands Bhagavad-gītā, it is not for the mass understanding. Because,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
[Bg. 7.3]

It is not for ordinary understanding. You cannot make a mass meeting and pass resolution and you’ll understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not like that. Workers must be also very śreṣṭhas, not ordinary workers. He must understand Kṛṣṇa. Then he can preach. If you talk foolish, what kind of preaching? That is not the way. So if you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, find out the śreṣṭhas of the country, sit down and try to understand. Not that at mass conference-big meeting, and people…resolution passed and everything is done. That is not the way. Select! Just like we all selected gentlemen and we talk. If you understand, then you can preach. But if you do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, how to understand Bhagavad-gītā, what is Kṛṣṇa… And Kṛṣṇa says that,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
[Bg. 7.3]

So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3], even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55].

Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogīs. He has strictly specified, bhaktyā. Bhakto [Bg. 4.3] ’si priyo ’si. [Bg. 18.65] When He wanted to instruct Arjuna… Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedāntist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā, which is so old and scientific. That Kṛṣṇa says: bhakto ’si. “Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me.” Bhagavad-gītā. And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you’ll never get Kṛṣṇa.

So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he’s learned scholar, he’s a big politician or a big yogī or big jñānī. No. that is not…Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ [Bg. 18.55]. If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural you’ll interpret in your way, your own philosophy. That is not the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. It will be jñāna, yoga, karma, or other things…. But it is not Bhagavad-gītā. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it. And if you preach, that will be effective. Please come in.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
We will have to study deeply your books.

Prabhupāda:
These are the preliminary points.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
The basic idea is quite clear what you said. People accept it or not but your idea is clear.

Prabhupāda:
No. It is not my idea. It is authentic idea. If you say my idea, then I become one of you. [laughter] So I don’t want that. I say I am foolish man. I have no idea. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is idea. That’s all. Just like a child, he speaks the words of his father. If the father… The child asks, “Father, what is this?” The father says, “This is a stick.” So if the child says, “Sir, it is a stick,” so that is correct. He may be a child; because he repeats the words of the father…

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. We have discussed the interpretations separately in a round-about way.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Round-about cannot be.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Svāmījī, I have one request. May the yoga of Gīta prevail in the lives of all people.]

Prabhupāda:
If you don’t introduce Bhagavad-gītā then the foolish civilization is already ruined and will ruin.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. In every field whatever one may be engaged in he should get the benefit of Bhagavad-gītā.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. If a worker says, “Explain me Bhagavad-gītā.” No. It is specially meant for rājarṣīs or the head of the Government. He should be incharge. Then he can order. And people must follow. Just like previously it used to be. The order of the king. The king must be correct. Then his order would be correct. But if the king is a rascal then what is his order.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. That means there is no place for Bhagavad-gītā at present day.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No. So much scope is there. See in the foreign countries so many Bhagavad-gītās are distributed that they are now afraid that our present civilization will be ruined.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Where are the kings?]

Prabhupāda:
Not kings, public. Now it is democracy. If the people are fools and rascals, then the king will be fool and rascal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB. 2.3.19]. [Transl. It is stated in the Bhāgavata that the democracy is nothing but a bunch of śva-vid-varāhoṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Śva means dog. Vid-varāha means hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra means camel. And khara means ass. These kinds of persons have elected a king. Then what do you expect? Dog is another animal. What benefit will be there?]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. My appeal is that during the time when Gītā was spoken, there was a proccedure, there were sages, demigods and so on, but now that system is no longer in practice.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. For that you have to convince people. This is no argument.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Can ordinary people have access to Gītā’s instructions or not? That’s the question.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. There is no need for ordinary people.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. No need. Then the condition of people will remain as it is today? Corruption, lie, adultery\–will go on?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Ordinary people have a leader.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Nowadays everybody is a leader.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then the condition is chaotic. No need of preaching Gītā then. Actually the leaders…Just like you all are leaders. So you understand first then you preach to others. That will be effective.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. You are right that if some persons understand it then they can preach to others.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. The leaders. They should know what is Gītā? What is the procedure to understand it? He can preach. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead said imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2].

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
tat tad evetaro janaḥ
[Bg. 3.21]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. If the preacher is qualified, if he has practiced and realised it in his own life then he can preach. Not everyone can do it.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. The point I am making is that you all leaders and politicians of the country understand it first then you preach it to others. Then it will be fruitful. Not that anyone comes and makes his own interpretation. No.]

Guest (1):
[Transl. Only someone qualified can preach and not persons like us.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No. If people close their ears with ear-plugs then how would they hear? The Supreme Lord Himself has said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat. [Bg. 7.7] Kṛṣṇa says “There is no one superior to Me.” Let them understand. Is it true or not. The Supreme Lord declared,

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
[Bg. 7.7]

[Transl. There is no superior authority than Me. Now the leaders should understand and accept that there is no greater authority than Him. That’s all. Just see even a woman can understand it. Just see! I tell you there is no difficulty at all in this. We are determind that we won’t preach what Gītā says, we will simply speculate. The problem was “I am very learned, I am a big politician so whatever I say is correct.” What was the benefit?]

Guest (1):
[Transl. Kṛṣṇa said in Bhagavad-gītā, He is seated in everyone’s heart and He gives remembrance…]

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
[Bg. 15.15]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. So when He gives remembrance then when He says mattaḥ parataram nānyat, then why don’t you accept it? The Supreme Lord is saying that there is no one superior to Me, do you accept it?]

Guest (1):
[Transl. Certainly.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then accept. Then there is no question of argument.] If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, then where is the question of interpretation? [Transl. There is none poorer than he who interprets. māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya... [Bg. 9.32]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. We had a good discussion by the way. And your response was clear. Should we end it now? We have to go somewhere also. So we are very grateful that you kindly came here.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is my duty. You are trying to preach Bhagavad-gītā so…]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. By meeting together like this we come to know many things. Yesterday I saw. I didn’t know about your health condition. Much benefit is derived by meeting all together.]

Prabhupāda:
But who accepted? This is a fact. You try to understand that before me for two hundred years so many svāmīs, yogīs went there—not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. We are really astonished.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Try to understand that at least.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. I noticed yesterday. Is it there today?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. This is the simple path. What benefit will there be by giving up the simple path and and talking nonsense?]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Vṛndāvana…New Vṛndāvana is very beautifully arranged. In India also, in Vṛndāvana you made a great establishment.]

Prabhupāda:
In Europe, America I have got so many branches and about nine farms. [Transl. Go-rakṣya* program I have introduced there ten years ago in Europe. They are very happy. Thay are very happy. Live in the village. Protect cows. Produce your own food. This is not my introduction. The Supreme Lord Himself says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni, [Bg. 3.14] All living bodies subsist on food grains.]

Produce foodgrains. To produce food grain it is necessary to arrange cow protection. kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ [Bg. 18.44] They are very happy there. They say that we don’t feel like going back to the nasty city. Their city life and our city life is different. There is no facility in our city life. Even their better standard of city life they don’t like.

Guest 1:
That’s why they don’t like you anymore. Because you just draw them away from city life.

Prabhupāda:
That’s why they accuse me that Svāmījī is brain washing. They are not saying, their parents are saying. They have already become distracted. I have destracted them in such a way that they will never go back home. That’s why they accuse. For example, this boy, even if you give him one lakh rupees he will not go back to his parents.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
Their parents hire hooligans to kidnap them.

Prabhupāda:
Yes, They have taken some devotees away, but they came back. This happened just recently. This is going on practically you understand. Therefore I want all of your co-operation. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission is that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41] One who has taken birth in the land of Bhārata or India, what is his duty? janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra. To do good to others. It is not the duty of the people of India to exploit others. This is India’s duty. Para-upakāra. Janma sārthaka kari.. first make your own life perfect and then preach. If you yourself is in darkness then what will you preach? This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission. Again He says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa, live wherever but become a guru. So the question will arise that I don’t know anything, I am uneducated, so how can I become a guru? You have ordered. So the answer is, you just have to do this yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That’s all. You become a guru. There is no need to find a big leader. One who imparts Kṛṣṇa’s instruction to others, he is a leader. But one who changes and adds things to Kṛṣṇa’s instructions or trims and clips them he is not a guru.

He is not teacher, he is cheater. Why should you change Kṛṣṇa’s words? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu: yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Don’t manufacture. What Kṛṣṇa has said, you say. Just as a child he can say, “This is a stick.” “How you have learned?” “Father said.” That’s all. It is a stick. That’s a fact. [Transl. What is the difficulty in that? What is the need of so much study? You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa said. That’s all. That will be effective.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. The same kind of temple you are constructing in Vṛndāvana and other places you bring here also.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Here it is like there is a saying in Bengali, kāne diyechi tulo, piṭhe beṅdhechi kulo, yata kilobi kilo. What you call that thing with which you clean rice paddy?]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Winnowing-platter or tray.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I have tied a winnowing-platter on my back, and inserted cotton into my earholes. Now you can beat me and talk to me as much as you like. Nothing will happen. We have become so stubborn atheists it is very difficult to talk.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. People in the western countries…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. They are simple minded and not crooked like here. Here you go on speaking. We have blocked our ears with cotton. We won’t hear.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. They are taking lessons now.]

Prabhupāda:
No. Willfully they are cheating I must say. Willfully.

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. As per our discussion till now we will suggest all our co-institutions to keep in mind this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, try to popularised it and issue a separate statement. Your views are clear.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. There is no need of other’s advice. Just follow what the Supreme Lord is saying. No need of this and that.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[indistinct]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. One who is not surrendered to the Supreme Lord, what will he instruct? That is useless gossip.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. One who has not practiced himself in life…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. And to understand the Lord, the Lord Himself is saying, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]. He didn’t say… bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]

Guest 1:
[Transl. It is very kind of you that though you had to go from Honolulu to New York, but for the conference you agreed to come here from Honolulu and go to New York later.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. By the Lord’s mercy I have no problem in traveling around the world. Whenever I travel I purchase a world round trip ticket. And a round trip ticket costs 16,000 rupees.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Round trip?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. And at least 5 to 7 persons travel together. That’s almost 1 lakh of rupees. Within ten years I have travelled 15 times all over the world.] Although I started this business with forty rupees. [laughter] [Transl. You all are big, big businessmen. You would know the worth of that amount.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. We have to learn how to start a business with forty rupees and expand it rapidly in only few years.]

Prabhupāda:
Yes. When I went to New York they allowed me only forty rupees. You take it. [Transl. That forty rupees I didn’t spend. When I returned to Palam airport New Delhi they took that forty rupees as tax. Otherwise it remained with me. So the Supreme Lord gives. That’s a fact. Now this Mr. Alfred Ford, he is my disciple. He told me “I have got thirty million dollars, you can take it any time you want.” I have no dearth of anything by the grace of the Lord.]

Śrīman Nārāyaṇa:
[Transl. Now you may be having your meal etc.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I take my lunch at 1:30 P.M.] [end]