Garden Conversation

Prabhupāda:
…of United Nation. [Transl. See practically, see Hindu, Mussalman, Christian, Jews, African, all are assembled here.]

Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor: Real United Nations.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. The real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54].[Transl. That is possible only if people together loudly chant and sing about Kṛṣṇa.] Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nation…

Hari-śauri:
Oh, Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.

Prabhupāda:
Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that “It is a dog’s barking association.” [laughter] It was published.

Dr. Kapoor:
Published.

Hari-śauri:
Front page. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
And he added something, that “Swami is hounding.”

Hari-śauri:
Yes, the heading was, “His Divine Grace has come here to hound us.” And then the article was Prabhupāda describing how the United Nations was a collection of dogs barking. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
My point was that if you bring some dogs and ask them, “My dear dogs, sit down here peacefully. Don’t bark. Don’t create trouble.” Will they do? Will they do?

Dr. Kapoor:
No.

Prabhupāda:
If you keep them dogs, how it is possible they will be peaceful?

Dr. Kapoor:
So long as they are dogs they will bark.

Prabhupāda:
It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life—“I am Indian,” “I am American,” “I am this,” “I am that”—and all of them go to the United Nation assembly… So what is the difference when a dog thinks that “I am dog. I am this dog,” and an American or Indian thinks “I am a…”? Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Kṛṣṇa: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 5.29]. When one understands Kṛṣṇa is suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ, jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. [Transl. Then only there will be śānti.] So if you keep them as Americans or Indians or this or that, how there can be peace?

Hari-śauri:
That was front page.

Dr. Kapoor:
[laughs] “He’s here to hound us.” [laughs]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. There is so much publicity in the foreign countries.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[reading from paper] “His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is here to save us from a dog’s life.” [laughter] “He’s here to save us from a dog’s life. For unless we cultivate some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality.”

Hari-śauri:
This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
The Ratha-yātrā is held on Seventh Avenue…

[several talking at once]

Prabhupāda:
They admitted: “This is the East and West meeting.”

Hari-śauri:
“Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West.”

Dr. Kapoor:
“Where East Meets West.” Ah.

Hari-śauri:
And this one is in South Africa.

[guests look at article]

Prabhupāda:
Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone—government official, police, public—all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was… How many miles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
From Washington Square Park… How many miles? At least four or five miles.

Pradyumna:
Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete, from one end to the other.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
The government had sealed it off.

Indian man:
What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda:
Here the Russians are afraid of this movement.

Indian man:
Afraid of.

Prabhupāda:
They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. Would you be going to China?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We have not yet gone to China also.]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
But they like Prabhupāda’s books. Russian scholars have praised Prabhupāda’s books. I was in Russia two months ago. They have praised Prabhupāda’s books very much.

Indian man:
Sir, what is your opinion about Sai Baba? [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He has no basis on the śāstra.] Jugglery.

Indian man:
No avatāra has declared so far that “I’m avatāra.”

Prabhupāda:
He is… What is called avatāra?

Indian man:
But he has declared that “I am avatāra.”

Prabhupāda:
He has no, nothing on the śāstra basically. And anyone who has no śāstra basics, he’s useless. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think you’ll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned.

[break] Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery, eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I’ve not seen.

Indian man:
I don’t know. He does some kind of trick.

Prabhupāda:
Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.

Prabhupāda:
What is that other magic? Generally he…

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases, and they get cured.

Prabhupāda:
So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence? Huh?

Hari-śauri:
One man said that once he was traveling in his car, and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, “Oh, you have been in an accident, and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left, and therefore you were not injured.” Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.

Prabhupāda:
If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he’s so powerful?

Dr. Kapoor:
That is very easy. I can also do that. [laughter] I know the trick.

Prabhupāda:
Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
What is the trick?

Dr. Kapoor:
I’ll not tell it to you. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
No. These tricky things are… They have no…

Hari-śauri:
Sometimes he conjures up different items in his hand. Like he can conjure up a watch. Or there’s a particular type of nut that is found in Nepal. So some American scientist was trying to get him to…

Prabhupāda:
[aside] You have found out that portion?

Pradyumna:
I’m just, I’m getting…

Hari-śauri:
They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again, and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it, like this. And then he…

Prabhupāda:
Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?

Indian man:
B. N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. B. N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street, and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy…

Dr. Kapoor:
Motorway.

Prabhupāda:
Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University, along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There’s another six-year-old “god” called Bhagwan Shri Krishna. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six-year-old Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was producing ash with some magic.

Prabhupāda:
Ash?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
Ash. So all the local…, a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded, and the child’s parent admitted it was bogus. Now that “god” is finished, Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was six-year-old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, “Why should I respond to these people?”

Dr. Kapoor:
He’s angry for this kind of people coming to him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
This group of professors, they’re exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.

Prabhupāda:
Have you got it?

Pradyumna:
Yes.

acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas
tathā janasyāviduṣo ’budho guruḥ
tvam arka-dṛk sarva-dṛśāṁ samīkṣaṇo
vṛto gurur naḥ sva-gatiṁ bubhutsatām
[SB. 8.24.50]

Prabhupāda:
What is that? Acakṣuḥ?

Pradyumna:
Acakṣuḥ.

Prabhupāda:
Acakṣuḥ…

Pradyumna:
Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas.*

Prabhupāda:
Abudho guru. So andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB. 7.5.31]. They are gurus. They are blind, and they are guru for blind men. Abudho guru. These have been described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If we are to accept guru, so the original guru is Kṛṣṇa because He instructed Lord Brahmā, the first living creature within this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye [SB. 1.1.1]. He instructed the ādi-kavi. He is the guru, Kṛṣṇa. And in the Bhagavad-gītā He also says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So He is ādi-guru. In Bhagavad-gītā also He is instructing Arjuna. He is ādi-guru. So instead of this tricky, jugglery guru, why not people approach Kṛṣṇa? Therefore acakṣur andha. [Transl. This is going on.] Read this verse again.

Pradyumna:
Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas tathā janasyāviduṣo ’budho guruḥ.

Prabhupāda:
Ah. Aviduṣaḥ abudho guruḥ. [Transl. Such gurus are for foolish people. Not for educated persons. The genuine guru is there.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. So I take your leave. These people have come, they are hurry to go.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Go. Take some Prasāda. Little Prasāda.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. Prabhupāda, there is one called Bala Yogi…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So many come and go. Aviduṣaḥ abudho guruḥ. You can bring something…]

Pradyumna:
Drink?

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Aviduṣam abudho guruḥ.* No, what I mean to say is] if things are very easy, why they go roundabout way? [Trans_The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself is saying], man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bhagavad-gītā 18.65]

mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.68] [Transl. By giving up this simple path why follow other paths? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, the Supreme Lord Himself is speaking. “Think of Me.” What is the difficulty? Now all these people have come and they are seeing the form of the Lord. So naturally there will be remembrance. If someone daily goes to the temple and sees the Lord then automatically man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, will be accomplished. Gradually. Then one more thing is to offer obeisances. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yāji, if one is capable then offer worship. How to worship? The Lord has said patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ* [Bg. 9.26].

“Give me a leaf.” Even the poorest person can offer. Offer a leaf, a flower. Is it difficult? If you can’t do anything then just offer obeisances. And simply by this you will go to Him. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ. So why run here and there by giving up such a simple process? What’s wrong? The nose is right here. Why do you have to show it like this?] [Prabhupāda gesturing his hand circling his head.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. Māyā’s influence.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Fools. That’s why it says aviduṣah abudho guruḥ.] I went to see the Rāmakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Ṭhākura was formerly Gaura-Hari.

Indian man:
What Swāmījī? Gauḍīya? Gaura-Hari.

Prabhupāda:
Gaura Hari. [Transl. So immediately I understood what a fool he was! What is the use of talking with him?] He said “Rāmakrishna Ṭhākura, Ṭhākura Rāma… He was formerly Gaurasundara. [Transl. Gaurasundara preached devotional service to Kṛṣṇa. Then He appeared again and began to worship Kālī here. This we know.”]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. Kālī-pūja* where?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Rāmakrishna was a worshiper of Kālī. Kālī worshiper.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. I see. In Gaura incarnation He preached devotional service to Kṛṣṇa.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He negated all that and started worshiping Kālī.]

Dr. Kapoor:
[Transl. Oh, worshiped Kālī.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. And this we have got to believe! So who will accept it? Only fools will believe. He rescinded his previous mission and began his new mission. Gaursundar ordered everyone yāre dekha tāre kaha Kṛṣṇa upadeśa. [Cc. Madhya 7.128] And in this birth He began to worship Kālī! This is going on. In the śāstra it is stated, the Supreme Lord Himself said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante ’nya-devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20] One who worships the demigods his knowledge has been stolen. And on this verse Viśvanātha Cakravarty Ṭhākura has commented “Naṣṭa buddhaya” or he whose inteligence has been polluted.

So, those whose inteligence has been spoiled, they worship the demigods. The person whose knowledge has been stolen and who worships Kālī, he has become God! The śāstra declares that such person’s intelligence is polluted and he has become God! This is going on. Who will understand all this? This should be considered. Actually those who sincerely follow the path given by the ācāryas they are safe. This is what we preach. And some interested persons join. We don’t talk nonsense or manufacture gold or do things like that. Chant the holy name of Hari. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. [SB. 1.3.28] Just accept it. That’s all.]

Dr. Kapoor:

harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva
nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 7.76]

[end]