Room Conversation

Indian man:
[indistinct]

Prabhupāda:
I have got a sister. She is three years younger than me. So sometimes I chastise her like anything, because we have the same feeling. She is younger. Seventy-seven years, younger sister. But the feeling is there, younger. You know I sometimes chastise her.

Indian man:
Here the feeling is about… We can do more work. It doesn’t depend upon the age. In spite of this age we can do as much work as you want. This is what I wanted to emphasize here.

Prabhupāda:
Because the soul is not dependent on the body. Asaṅgo ’yaṁ puruṣaḥ. If the soul has got energy, he doesn’t care for the body.

Indian man:
I have talked with some brāhmaṇas here about the work that is being done here. They say, “We can’t do this type of work. We can do pūjā, sandhyā. We can do kīrtana for some time during the day, but not the whole day. Not whole day. Because we have to feed ourselves also and run from place to place. These days people are not giving us as much charity as they should.”

Prabhupāda:
They can live here and…

Indian man:
So that is what our people…

Prabhupāda:
They can eat here. There is no insufficiency. Simply come and manage and eat, as many men as you come here. We shall bring everything. There is no scarcity of food here. Everyone is welcome to engage his full time for Kṛṣṇa’s service. I am begging from the whole world, so there will be no scarcity. If somebody refuses, other will [indistinct]. My field is the whole world, and I am a professional beggar. That’s all.

Indian man:
One feeling I have I must express before you, otherwise whom can I express those feelings? The books are very costly. They are very good, but very costly.

Harikeśa:
What’s that?

Indian man:
Books. They are very costly for Indians who are very poor.

Prabhupāda:
When you are here, you can read all the books.

Indian man:
I personally can do this, sir, by coming here. But people would like to purchase these books, but they are very costly. If they can be printed in India, or…

Harikeśa:
We’re working on printing them in cheaper editions in India.

Indian man:
That would be wonderful.

Prabhupāda:
Yes, we are trying for that.

Basu Ghosh:
Already this Bhāgavatam, First Volume, has been printed in Delhi. It’s about three times less cost.

Prabhupāda:
So you are not getting that book?

Basu Ghosh:
No, in Hyderabad we haven’t gotten that yet.

Prabhupāda:
Why?

Basu Ghosh:
I don’t know. I’m not in a management position. Mahāṁsa Mahārāja is ordering.

Prabhupāda:
Get this cheap edition. You can order cheap edition. [break]

[paṇḍita chants Śrī Īśopaniṣad and Gāyatrī. Prabhupāda speaks in Hindi, quoting Sanskrit ślokas.] [break]

Pandita:

asuryā nāma te lokā
andhena tamasāvṛtāḥ
tāṁs te pretyābhigacchanti
ye ke cātma-hano janāḥ

anejad ekaṁ manaso javīyo
nainad devā āpnuvan pūrvam arṣat
tad dhāvato ’nyān atyeti tiṣṭhat
tasminn apo mātariśvā dadhāti

tad ejati tan naijati
tad dūre tad v antike
tad antar asya sarvasya
tad u sarvasyāsya bāhyataḥ

yas tu sarvāṇi bhūtāny
ātmany evānupaśyati
sarva-bhūteṣu cātmānaṁ
tato na vijugupsate

yasmin sarvāṇi bhūtāny
ātmaivābhūd vijānataḥ
tatra ko mohaḥ kaḥ śoka
ekatvam anupaśyataḥ

sa paryagāc chukram akāyam avraṇam
asnāviram śuddham apāpa-viddham
kavir manīṣī paribhūḥ svayambhūr
yāthātathyato ’rthān vyadadhāc chāśvatībhyaḥ samābhyaḥ

andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye ’vidyām upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u vidyāyām ratāḥ

anyad evāhur vidyayā-
nyad āhur avidyayā
iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ
ye nas tad vicacakṣire

vidyāṁ cāvidyāṁ ca yas
tad vedobhayaṁ saha
avidyayā mṛtyuṁ tīrtvā
vidyayāmṛtam aśnute

andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye ’sambhūtim upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyām ratāḥ

anyad evāhuḥ sambhavād
anyad āhur asambhavāt
iti śuśruma dhīrāṇāṁ
ye nas tad vicacakṣire

sambhūtiṁ ca vināśaṁ ca
yas tad vedobhayaṁ saha
vināśena mṛtyuṁ tīrtvā

sambhūtyāmṛtam aśnute

vāyur anilam amṛtam athedaṁ bhasmāntaṁ śarīram oṁ krato smara kṛtaṁ smara krato smara kṛtaṁ smara agne naya supathā rāye asmān viśvāni deva vayunāni vidvān yuyodhy asmaj juhurāṇam eno bhūyiṣṭhāṁ te nama-uktiṁ vidhema

hiraṇmayena pātreṇa
satyasyāpihitaṁ mukham

*yo ’sāv asau puruṣaḥ so ’ham asmi
**Oṁ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ. **oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo
devasya dhīmahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt.
[repeats each word 5/6 times.] *
Oṁ śāntih śāntih śāntih.

Prabhupāda: [Transl. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that the living entities, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhuta jīva-loke sanātanaḥ, [Bg. 15.7] the jīva, jīvātma, are part and partcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are eternal. The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living entities are also eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13]

nityaḥ śāśvato ’yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
[Bg. 2.20]

[Transl. The living entities are eternal and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also eternal. But the Supreme Lord prominently eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living entities are also cognizant. The living entity has a form and the Supreme Lord also has a form. Nirākāra, the Supreme Lord’s body is not material, not material form. The living entities, in their conditioned state, receive material forms. So the Vedic instruction is to revive the spiritual form by giving up the material form and that is called liberation.

muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ
sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ
[SB. 2.10.6]

[Transl. That is liberation. This present condition is not our constitutional position. We have to give up this body. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. [Bg. 8.19] We give up one body and accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. [Bg. 2.13] We are in this condition at present. Therefore the mission of the Supreme Lord is yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata …. [Bg. 4.7]

• [Transl. When the spirit soul becomes attached to this material body, and so long he will remain attached to this body he will have to accept another material body. Karmānu bandha: conditioned by karma. To become attached to the body means karmānubandha. That I will work hard to earn money and be happy here is called karmānubandha. And till that you have to go on accepting bodies. Therefore it is stated in the *Śrīmad Bhāgavatam nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. [SB. 5.5.4]

[Transl. Being mad people engage in sinful activities. They do not discriminate between sin and piety. Just bring money by hook or by crook. They become mad and blind to collect money. Why? Yadindriya pritaye aprnoti. Only for sense gratification. Nothing else. There is no other purpose. That is also a kind of atheism. Sage Carvāka said ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. Enjoy life to the fullest extent. But I have no money. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā, borrow from others and enjoy. But by borrowing I will have to pay back. O you, who cares? bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet.
[Transl. This philosophy is going on. There is no consideration of impiety or piety. In English they say “Beg, borrow, steal.” Either you beg, or you borrow, or you steal. Somehow or other bring money. There are three ways. One who cannot earn money genuinely, for him these three ways are there. Cheat others -give me five hundred rupees I will return you tomorrow and never return. These considerations are, according to the śāstra, simply madness. nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma.
[Transl. This should not be done. Karmānubandha. nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB. 5.5.4] Only for sense gratification. Sense gratification is available even to the hogs and dogs. Therefore śāstra has forbidden that this human form of life is not meant for sense gratification like the hogs and dogs. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB. 5.5.1]

• [Transl. Viḍ-bhujāṁ, the stool eating hog also works hard whole day just to eat. And when it is little fat and strong it starts to enjoy sex no matter if the opposite sex is mother or sister. Nothing. This is the business of the hog. Just to enjoy sense gratification… Therefore the śāstra prohibits nāyaṁ deha, this body, the dog has got a body, the ass has got a body, the hog has got a body, everyone gets a body, material body. So long the spirit soul wants to enjoy sense gratification in the material world, he is awarded a suitable body according to his karma. And in each body he is provided facility for enjoyment. *Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. [SB. 11.9.29]
• [Transl. Sense gratification—eating, sleeping, mating, and arranging something to defend oneself, is available to dogs, hogs, human beings, birds and everyone else according to their respective deeds. Therefore that is not the duty of the human beings. Just to enjoy sense gratification, and to do that somehow or other earn money is not at all proper. Then what is the duty of the human being? Tapo divyam. Perform austerity. Why undergo austerity? Enjoy life. Why austerity? Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ. By performing tapasya your existence, material existence will be purified. And when your existence becomes purified then you will feel spiritual bliss which will never end. Aren’t we running after pleasure? The flickering happiness of this world is always temporary. But if you undergo tapasya then by that tapasya you will revive your spiritual body. You already have a spiritual body, but it is now covered. Just like this body is covered by a shirt. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni [Bg. 2.22]

[Transl. When the shirt is old and torn one rejects it and puts on another shirt, similarly, we all have got spiritual bodies, but that spiritual body has been covered by a material body. When we revive that spiritual body by giving up this material body then we can speak to God face to face just like we are talking now and meet Him directly. kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. When the cowherd boys were playing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead at that time Śukadeva Gosvāmī described like this.

itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā
dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ
[SB. 10.12.11]

[Transl. That these boys who are playing with the Supreme Lord they are not ordinary boys. Hmm. By accumulating piety from many, many lifetimes they have revived their spiritual bodies and as a result of that they are now playing with the Supreme Lord. This is possible. By awakening the spiritual body, as we talk, play, walk, sit down, dance, eat and drink here, the same reciprocation is possible with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But they have declared God as formless. Finished.

• [Transl. No. That’s not a fact. That is why the Supreme Personality of Godhead personally descends and enacts His pastimes to convince us that you can also come to Me, play with Me, dance with Me, eat with Me and everything. That is called sanātana-dharma. When we go back to Godhead and play with the Supreme Lord with a body that will never perish, that is called sanātana-dharma. The spirit soul is sanātana: eternal and the Supreme Lord is also sanātana. This is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Eleventh…]*Indian man: Jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7] Prabhupāda:[Transl. Jīva- bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ refers to jīvas only. And Arjuna addressed the Supreme Lord as sanātanas tvam. So the Supreme Lord is sanātana. Similarly there is a sanātana-dhama.

Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo ’nyo
’vyakto ’vyaktāt sanātanaḥ
[Bg. 8.20]

[Transl. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo ’nyo, Yet there is another nature which is eternal. That is called vaikuntha: spiritual world. Where there is no anxiety. Here it is full of anxiety. No matter how much you enjoy in this world you will always be in anxiety. Always there is an anxiety—what will happen next. What is next? It doesn’t matter how rich one is, the anxiety will remain. Why there is anxiety? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Simply because one has accepted the temporary material object he must be in anxiety.

tat sādhu manye ’sura-varya dehināṁ
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt
[SB. 7.5.5]

[Transl. On account of accepting temporary matter one must be in anxiety. Therefore in the Vedas it is said asato mā sad gamaya. Don’t remain in asat, temporary, sad gamaya, go to eternal. That is called liberation.So long we will remain in temporary matter the anxiety and the threefold material miseries will continue. Therefore śāstra states,

na sādhu manye yata ātmano ’yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
[SB. 5.5.4]

[Transl. We should not act in such a way that we will have to again accept another material body. Because, though this body is temporary, your body, my body, his body, it will last maximum for hundred years. That too with great difficulty. Now I am eighty-one years old, eighty-one. May be a few years more I can live. At the most one hundred years. So nineteen years left. That means I have already died eighty-one years and to die another nineteen years I will have to prepare.
[Transl. So long I will be hankering for material happiness I will be forced to accept material bodies. na sādhu manye yata ātmano ’yam asann api kleśada, as soon as you accept a material body you must suffer miseries. Starting from the mother’s womb up to death. Again you die and again enter into a mother’s womb, whether a human’s womb, or a demigod’s womb, or a king’s womb. He must suffer misery in the womb. Then as soon as one is born the miseries continue. Therefore śāstra instructs na sādhu manye, this is not a good proposal. Then what should be done? One should perform tapasya. Tapo divyam. [SB. 5.5.1] Divyam. That divyam is explained by the Supreme Lord in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma karma ca me divyam. [Bg. 4.9] [Transl. The birth and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are all transcendental. And to obtain that transcendental object one should undergo austerity.]

janma karma ca me divyam
evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ [Transl. One who knows the reality that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is not like me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. [Bg. 9.11] Just like the foolish people think that the Supreme Lord is like us. If one understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why the Supreme Lord descends, why He takes birth?

ajo ’pi sann avyayātmā
bhūtānām īśvaro ’pi san
prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya
sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā
[Bg. 4.6]

[Transl. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself has revealed all these truths in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we spend our lives by realising all these things then, *tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, [Bg. 4.9] *we will no longer accept any more material bodies. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti so kaunteya. That is sanātana. We will have eternal life. That is liberation. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ. [SB. 2.10.6] Thank you very much.

Devotees:
Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Indian man:
Svāmijī Mahārāja ki jaya. [break]

Mahāṁsa:
They will not part with even one thousand rupees. They’re exactly what you described. And also these were the people who are with Śaṅkarācārya who came the first time when you had come here. They were with Śaṅkarācārya. And Hariprasad and some Marwaris were with our movement, and these people were on the other side. So there was some conflict at that time. And Śaṅkarācārya came and you…

Prabhupāda:
Śaṅkarācārya, he says that you are bhagavān.

Mahāṁsa:
Yes. Also nirākāra. All these things they have been influenced. But the fact that now they are slowly coming to accept us. There is one Mr. Badanman who was the host of Śaṅkarācārya, and for two and a half years he never came here, he never entertained the devotees.

Prabhupāda:
The Śaṅkarācārya was poison.

Mahāṁsa:
Yes. But then since last six to seven months, he has been completely convinced about us, and he has been going around collecting money from other Marwaris for the temple construction. He was simply convinced by seeing the “Hare Kṛṣṇa” film. And by seeing the Deities he was so much taken aback, and he was so much wonderstruck with the Deities which he saw on the film.

Prabhupāda:
You were also present then?

Mahāṁsa:
Not here. Before, about six to seven months back. I had shown him the film privately in my room. That was the time when he was completely convinced about it, and he started collecting afterwards for us. Now all these people are coming. Because by heart they are all Vaiṣṇavas. All these Marwaris, their Deity is Kṛṣṇa. And there’s not a single Kṛṣṇa temple in Hyderabad. So last few days…

Prabhupāda:
Oh, there is no Kṛṣṇa…

Mahāṁsa:
There is no Kṛṣṇa temple, what to speak of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. And their Deity is Kṛṣṇa, most of the Marwaris. So they will now, slowly, all of them will come. We had a very hard time. This Inani who was wearing the turban. He’s the chief of the Marwaris. If he gives five thousand rupees, then all the Marwaris will give five thousand rupees in that Ganj area. Whatever he gives, the others will have to.

Prabhupāda:
He is the head.

Mahāṁsa:
He’s the head. He himself never gave. And we went a hundred times to him.

Prabhupāda:
And now he saw the film…

Mahāṁsa:
Yes. And today also he was there in the morning. Now he will definitely give. You had also previously said that they are very conservative. But once they take it up, then they will take it up very nicely.

Prabhupāda:
And I also explained, “Nā rūpya, nā rūpya.” [laughs] [“bring money, bring money.”]

Mahāṁsa:
[laughs] Yes, that’s exactly what they do.

Prabhupāda:
Actually, that is the whole world going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB. 5.5.4]. [Transl. Bring money somehow or other.] Whole world.

Mahāṁsa:
Beg, borrow, steal.

Prabhupāda:
Huh? Beg, borrow, steal. Bring money and enjoy. They were selected Marwaris. This morning?

Mahāṁsa:
Yes, these people are the head of the Marwari community. They don’t know how to live. They live in these slums, which we saw today. They live all around that area. They are crore-patis. They have crores of rupees.

Prabhupāda:
To live very gorgeously is not good.

Mahāṁsa:
But even their houses are not so clean—shabby.

Prabhupāda:
Even though they’re not… You cannot say not… They are clean. I have seen in Bombay even the poorest man, his house, and a Parsi gentleman, his house. Kitchen habits. A Parsi’s kitchen is so nasty. And here you see this poor man’s house, they are neat. Their utensils, how much cleansed. I had been in Parsi kitchen. All the pots black. Nothing is cleansed. For eating they use this china. So clean or unclean cannot be understood. Simply washed. But so far the kitchen pots, all are… In our also, when it is handled by these [chuckles] European, American devotees, the black. Down, it is black. That should not be black. It must be cleansed.

Mahāṁsa:
By the heat, if you use wood, it brings up a lot of soot.

Prabhupāda:
But it must be cleansed daily.

Mahāṁsa:
It should not come on your finger if you touch it, that black thing.

Prabhupāda:
Not even you cannot see black, any black spot. Then it is clean. Otherwise not clean. If there’s a single black spot, it is not clean. You can see from this poor class of men, how their utensils are cleansed. Before taking water the jug, the waterpot, you’ll like to drink water from it. In our school days there were sweeper, they were a different quarter. So you like to sit down. So clean. The sweeper, cleansing the toilet, bhangi. But when you come to his house, living quarter, oh, it is so clean—the bed, the room, the utensils. And they also will take twice, thrice bath, then they will eat. That is the Hindu culture. Even the sweeper class, lowest class. And I have seen one sweeper class who were in Allahabad, regularly worshiping Deity. Very nice worship.

Mahāṁsa:
So a Vaiṣṇava, then.

Prabhupāda:
They take initiation from the Vṛndāvana Goswamis and they follow strictly rules and regulations. Cleanliness is very essential. In English also it is said cleanliness is next to godliness. Everything should be, especially temple. It will attract them. And we are singing daily, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Tat-mandira-mārjana. Mārjana means cleanliness. And want of cleanliness means laziness. If you are lazy you cannot keep clean. “Ah, let me sleep for the time being.” That is mode of ignorance. Tamo-guṇa. So we have to conquer over rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ [SB. 1.2.19]. Then there is question of coming to the platform śuddha, sāttvika. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam [SB. 4.3.23]. Where is this verse? In Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Pradyumna:
Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam.

Prabhupāda:
Maybe Fourth Chapter, Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Pradyumna:
In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta is quoted? Ādi-līlā? [looks for book]

Prabhupāda:
Hmm.

Mahāṁsa:
Shall I go and bring the agreement?

Prabhupāda:
Yes. The Western world is very busy manufacturing this machine. And they are thinking this is advancement of civilization.

Hari-śauri:
Technology.

Prabhupāda:
That is not advancement.

Hari-śauri:
They can’t see any use for philosophy and fine arts any more.

Prabhupāda:
Because they do not know what is soul.

Hari-śauri:
They don’t know what the point if it is.

Prabhupāda:
They do not know what is missing, why the body is useless. They do not cultivate. The most important thing they do not cultivate. This man was so important one second before. Now the whole body is useless. It has to be thrown away. They do not give attention even to this, how he becomes… Second before he was Mr. Churchill or Mr. Such-and-such, very important man, all men showing respect. And now he is useless. If somebody kicks on his face nobody will say. Out of sentiment they protest, but the man will not protest.

Hari-śauri:
They stick him in the ground. [laughs] Put him in a box.

Prabhupāda:
But why this happened, this “why” question does not come. They are so dull. What that thing missing? And these rascal scientists will theorize, “The blood becomes white, this becomes that, that becomes that.” And do it. If the blood has become white, then make it red. Mix some color or chemical and bring him to life. “No, the life-giving substance is lost.” Oh, life-giving substance is not lost. So many germs are coming. Why do you say the life-giving substance is lost? It is there. They do not consider all these things. If matter is life-giving substance, matter is there. Decomposed matter is also matter.

Just like stool—a decomposed remnants of foodstuff. That is also matter. Stool is also matter. The same kṣiti, ap, teja, marut, vyoma is there. The earth is there, the water is there, the heat is there. What is the loss there? And actually you see from this matter, from the stool so many worms are coming out. How do you say that the life-giving matter is missing? That you cannot explain. Still they will not accept that the soul is gone. That individual soul is gone. This is their intelligence. Hmm. Give me that stamp. Round stamp. So the post… [break] [end]