Room Conversation in Hindi [Translated]
So then how can we not give respect to the big, big demigods?
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I had your darśana once before.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Yes. I had come to meet you here. It’s been a few years. I visit all of your centres wherever they are at and help as per my capacity.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. What are the places you have been?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Mombasa, Montreal and recently New York. I met the devotees in New York. Our āśrama is at Haridvāra.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I see.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Some time before Svami Brahmānanda had come there. He is in-charge of Nairobi Mombasa. He stayed there for a few days.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. When did he come?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Four months ago.]
Prabhupāda:
Eh?
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. About three, four months ago. Three, four months ago, because I left for abroad two months ago.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Brahmānanda came there?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Yes sir. He is in-charge of Nairobi Mombasa.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes. If he came to India three, four months ago, he didn’t meet me?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. He must have met you.]
Indian man (2):
[Transl. Our Brahmānanda Mahārāja or theirs?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. No, the one who lives in Nairobi. Maybe I am forgetting the name.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Not Brahmānanda may be Cyavana. Cyavana. Is he skinny?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. No. He is big fat. Big body.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then it must be Brahmānanda.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Yes, I know him very well. He attends my lecture every day in Mombasa. I also visited his place as I had to make some arrangements for the devotees there on his request. I helped them according to my ability. So I know him. He brought a bus with him.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Came in a bus? Then it must be his brother. It might be Gargamuni.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Maybe. It’s possible.]
Indian man (2):
[Transl. By face, both of them look alike.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Both are stout.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Now you will be staying in London for some time?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No. I will be leaving today only. My health is not good. I have cough and cold.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. You have delivered the whole world.]
Prabhupāda:
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. It is very difficult to preach and bring into practice the eastern culture, Indian culture in the western countries. Recently we had a huge festival here of Guru-pūrṇimā. About nine thousand people attended it.]
Prabhupāda:
Oh.
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. At the Alexander Palace on 11th July. It was a big festival. We are also thinking of building a small āśrama here. We would like to become complementary to you and also wish your society’s cooperation with us and work together with mutual understanding. Then the world will be benefitted better.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. The goal of our preaching is kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. [SB. 1.3.28] But nobody accepts it. They say it is sectarean. What do you say? Their argument is why Kṛṣṇa is God? I am God, you are God, he is God. Everyone is God. We cannot accept that. kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. They don’t agree with this.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Little differences will be there.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Then how can we unite? Answer?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. We will unite wherever we agree.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Not possible. It will be hodgepodge. Anybody and everybody will come and claim to be God. How can we accept them as equal to God?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Our whole culture is based on worshiping the demigods, pañcadeva-upāsanā: five god worship.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Demigod worshipers are foolish.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. How can you say that?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. How? śāstra says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante ’nya-devatāḥ. [Bg. 7.20] One who worships the demigods, he is a fool.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. No, see for example, Devī Bhāgavata is there…]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes, that’s all right and their worship is not denied. But one who worships them is a fool. This is the point. Worship is not denied, it is there in the Vedas.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. The Supreme Lord also says so. Na buddhi-bhedaṁ [Bg. 3.26]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That is another thing. Flatter them and get something in return. That is another thing. Otherwise you will be spoiled. Therefore it is not bad. But the fact is different.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. The big, big scholars like Karapātrījī are there, if you talk to them they will totally refute your conclusion.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No, they can’t. I have proved it practically.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. But on the whole what you are doing is great. There cannot be anything better than this.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. All I know is that you are searching for God, here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. You are looking for God and when God is presented before you, you deny saying why He alone is God. This is the difficulty. But we don’t compromise.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. No problem. The mission is the same.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Our proposal is, Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. We don’t deny demigod worship. We don’t say that. We don’t disregard them.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. That’s very good. That’s enough.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We visit demigod temples, we offer them obeisances. We must offer respect as much as they deserve. Certainly.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. This much is enough.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. [Śrī Śikṣāṣṭaka 3]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. … Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We give respect even to an insignificant ant. So then how can we not give respect to the big, big demigods? But, in connection to Kṛṣṇa only. Just like Durgādevī, we worship her. But how? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44] Durgā is not ordinary.
sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā
icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā
that sā is not independent. Icchānurūpam api.mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
[Bg. 9.10]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Right.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. He is the proprietor and all others are senior and junior servants. There are big and small servants. This we accept.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Everyone has got his own opinion. That’s all right.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No, it is confirmed in the śāstra. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself said,
mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
[Bg. 7.7]
We are foolish therefore we simply accept this statement. We are not very learned in the śāstra. What the Supreme Lord says we just accept. Business is finished. And it is being successful. When the Supreme Lord is declaring, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat….]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl.
kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
[Bg. 7.7]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. then why do we have rack our brains? Respect we must give to all. But as far as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is concerned, ṣaḍaiśvaryapūrṇa-bhagavān, aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47]. That is Kṛṣṇa. While describing Kṛṣṇa’s incarnations it is stated in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam also,
ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. And in ‘hare rāma’ you accept Balarāmajī, is it?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No. Rāma means Bhagavān. You accept Balarāma or Rāma, what is there?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Ramante yogino ’nante*]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl.
satyānande cid-ātmani
iti rāma-padenāsau
paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate.
[Cc. Madhya 9.29]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. You don’t accept Dāśarathi Rāma.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Why not? They simply accuse us like that. Now we are building a temple in Bombay and in that we will have Lord Rāmacandra. Rāma, Lakṣmaṇa, Sītā. Yes.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. What is there? There is no difference.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl.
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ bhagavan
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu… Kṛṣṇa…
What is that?
Harikesa:
Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo.
Prabhupāda:
Hān, paramaḥ pumān yo. [Brahma-saṁhitā 5.39].
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
[Bs. 5.1]
[Transl. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Arjuna too accepted it.
paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
[Bg. 10.12]
Sannyasi Guest:
…paramaṁ puruṣaṁ divyam.
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So this is our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Serve Him. There is no difficulty.
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
[Bg. 9.34]
[Transl. Everyone can do it. No difficulty at all. The learned can do it and even the most foolish person can just offer obeisances. Māṁ namaskuru. This is the point. [aside:] Bring some prasāda. How long have you been here?]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. I have already been here one month and will be here another fifteen days. In Leicester we had eight days of programs. And now its been 10 days in Braunstone Hall. Around four thousand people attended daily. And then in the Guru-pūrṇimā festival around ten thousand people participated.]
Indian man (2):
[Transl. We held Ratha-yātra here on the Guru-pūrṇimā day.]
Prabhupāda:
Eh?
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Ratha-yātra here.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We also had Ratha yātra in New York. About ten, twelve thousand people came. Hindus, Muslims… not Muslims…]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Muslims don’t go anywhere. Try to bring them somehow, Maharājajī.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Oh I have many Muslim disciples. In Iran there are Muslim disciples. In Tehran. His previous name was Attar Mia. Now I have changed his name to Ātreya Ṛṣi.]
Indian man (2):
[Transl. Here also there is one.]
Prabhupāda:
Eh?
Indian man (2):
[Transl. Here also. Sarva sāgar his name.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes here also. There was one brahmacārī. He died in car accident. He was a Muslim professor.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Was he wearing ūrdhva-puṇḍra: tilaka marks?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Oh yes. Everything just like us.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Then it’s very good.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We have a condition that anyone who wants to be initiated must give up four things. No illicit sex. No meat, fish or eggs. No intoxication. Wine etc. he must give up, even tea and bīḍī he must give up.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Really?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. One who agrees to follow these conditions, I make him my disciple.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Very good.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. None of my disciples takes tea. That’s why I face more difficulty.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Still you have so many. What’s the difficulty? You already have ten thousand disciples. That’s not small numbers.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We don’t allow tea even. We cook our food here, but no tea.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Whenever you come to Haridvāra kindly ask your secretary to inform us so that we can welcome you.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Surely will come. Now bodily energy is decreasing. I am already 80 years old.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Yes. This is a hard work too.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I have centres 102 places. If I stay two, three days in each place then…]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. ….the year is over. Two, three days in one place plus traveling time the whole year is finished.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. But these people, these American boys are helping me a lot in every way. To print these books and…]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. Printing in thousands and millions.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. No, we sell books like anything. We sell 60 thousand dollars worth of books daily. Now in Hindi…]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. …You have started printing.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. We have got Śrīmad Bhāgavatam in French language.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. French. You are doing a great service.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Chinese, Japanise and of course English. So, all together daily 60 thousand dollars worth of books are distributed.]
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. May I take your leave now?]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. These books are a great benediction. Please come again. Tomorrow we…]
[aside:] We are going tomorrow?
Harikesa:
Tomorrow.
Sannyasi Guest:
[Transl. When you return to India I will take you from Bombay to Haridvāra to our āśrama.]
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Surely I will go. I will go Mahārāja.]
Sannyasi Guest:
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them.]
Harikesa:
They just have to listen and agree.
Prabhupāda:
Eh?
Harikesa:
They just have to listen when you preach. No one can argue. [end]