Engagement at the House of Kṣīrodakaśāyī dāsa

[kīrtana* in background]

Jayatīrtha:
…was sitting previously, which was being worshiped, So now being worshiped at this place. So he sat down because he was thinking that he was good as standing up, same as standing up. So one Vaiṣṇava priest who was taking care of the place, he threw him out. So in the book they complained that the Vaiṣṇavas are considered to be very narrow-minded. [laughter] Now I can understand…

Prabhupāda:
Here. He was kicked out.

Jayatīrtha:
Yes, the boy threw him out. So they were complaining about this.

Prabhupāda:
Just see. How bogus he was. No, when I go to met in Hollywood that, in the beginning that Prabhavananda, the rascal said that “Ramakrishna was formerly Caitanya Mahāprabhu.” He began like that. Then I could understand, “What a rascal he is, and I have to waste my time.” So I did not answer anything. I said, “Thank you very much for your meeting,” and I went out. This rascal’s first proposal was that Ramakrishna… Thakur Ramakrishna was formerly Caitanya. This is the beginning. He was so rascal.

[pause]

This is framework house. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If some of the svāmīs may have said, they say that “Why you call us rascal and so many things?” So you say that “We are not calling you; Kṛṣṇa says. So we are pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That’s it. We cannot help it. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious; therefore you must be mūḍha.”

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. Exactly Prabhupāda. Therefore kicking out.]

Jayatīrtha:
The best thing Kṛṣṇa has to say about them is that they are abuddhayaḥ. The best thing Kṛṣṇa says about them is they are unintelligent. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ [Bg. 7.24].

Prabhupāda:
Abuddhayaḥ, no intelligence. And similarly, those who are demigod-worshipers, they have been described naṣṭa-buddhayaḥ, “lost of intelligence.” These are statements in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness; we have to say. How we can avoid this? It may be displeasing to you, but we are not sorry. [laughter]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
We are not sorry.

Prabhupāda:
No, I mean to say the other party. But we have to say it.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
No, they all very pleased. They are all very pleased there. I say, when you can get off and Prabhupāda again comes, take prasādam, you can get off on that. They are waiting, but they will not take prasāda unless Prabhupāda’s… They are about…, over about two hundred people now. This temple here, all garden full.

Prabhupāda:
Yes. So they liked.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Yes, they liked very much.

Prabhupāda:
But I spoke very strong thing against Ramakrishna.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Because you spoke the truth, facts.

Prabhupāda:
And I challenged that “Any question? Please come.”

Indian man:
Prabhupāda is always forward to speak the truth. People couldn’t say anything.

Prabhupāda:
Dr. Kapoor says that…

Indian man:
O.B.L. Kapoor? Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda:
Vṛndāvana, yes. That “Bhaktivedanta Swami speaks as strongly as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī was speaking.” You know that?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Oh, yes. I met so many times. I understand also.

Prabhupāda:
He said that.

Jayatīrtha:
Very nice compliment.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
He also said that “Śrīla Prabhupāda is only one who has really taken the…, his mission seriously.”

Prabhupāda:
That is a fact. Of course, I don’t say myself. That will not look good. But there is other…

[devotees having indistinct conversation in background about recording]

They, all my Godbrothers, realize it. “But he is the only representative.” Somebody, they frankly admit, and somebody do not.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
I met… Some, they are starting coming here to see how the things are. [laughs] They all came. Still they are coming. I think… Somebody said that Bon Mahārāja came.

Prabhupāda:
He came here?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Pardon? Not here. I mean in London. Not here. I never invite anybody, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda:
No, no. London he came?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Yes, I heard. I don’t know. Somebody was telling. And so many svāmīs, so many, from Vṛndāvana they are coming. Because many, many guests come, Prabhupāda, in the week or during the day. They tell me that “Would you like to go? Some svāmī has come, some…” “Our svāmī is already here.” [laughs]

Prabhupāda:
That’s it.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
They invite some invitation. They have had a big international religious conference in Milford three weeks back, and all the professors, universities and big, big shark[?]… I have got not got the English…

Prabhupāda:
Mūḍhās.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[laughs] Mūḍhās, yes. So I understand… Some of the friends said it was a big feast and all that, but there was nothing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They never talk about the Lord. They were simply arguing each other, “I think so.” [laughs]

Prabhupāda:
This is their disease.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Big, big professor from London university, from Glasgow, so many professors. Big pamphlet came to me. They all send it… At least, they send it to this place here. I don’t know from where they get the address or the name all that, and they send, many, many of these new societies.

Jayatīrtha:
You’re becoming famous.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[laughs] No, no. Guru Mahārāja becomes.

Prabhupāda:
Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
We got many times, many very distinguished… One time that church vicar has come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said, “My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?” And I said,” You never… You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here.” And…

Prabhupāda:
Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not very far from here. Said, “We hear the noise in the morning, and we have got these feelings that these are very good thing.” An English lady.

Jayatīrtha:
Oh, this was an English person who came.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
English, yes. She is feeling in the heart.

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. So what about that laundry business?]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. That is going on Prabhupāda.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. I see. Is there anyone in that house?]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. The person who takes care of the laundry lives there. He looks after the laundry.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Laundry business must be going on nicely?]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. Guru Mahārāja, if the Supreme Lord is served then everything is good, otherwise nothing is good.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. That’s all.]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. That’s my motive.] I… We can. By your grace, Kṛṣṇa is here, and we have no intention to come from there. I had intention that let the children go back home. And we fight, all this stuff. I say, “All right, we must start to fully educate him.” Full education is that he become advanced in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And Guru Mahārāja’s instruction is also…

Prabhupāda:
That’s all right.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
So I said, “We haven’t got any education.” Under the law of this country, if they have to remain here, they have to go up to sixteen years to the school. And if they’re qualified, then they…

Prabhupāda:
No, education is good, but the association is…

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
No, they don’t have any asso… They don’t go anywhere. They don’t eat anywhere. Even so many invitation comes, either they go to the library or they go to the temple or this place. They have no friends, nothing else. No friends. They don’t even take the water anywhere, even to my brother’s house. They don’t take anywhere.

Prabhupāda:
Your brother is also here?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Yes, he’s here now. And he was not very good terms last eight years with me. But when I established this temple, by your grace, Prabhupāda, he has also realized it now that this is good. And my difference with him was that “You should give up this nonsense of drinking this, all these things.” That was only…, nothing else, about money or anything. I say, “I cannot eat at your place unless you give up these things.” I go there, don’t eat anything.

Prabhupāda:
Still, he drinks.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Still he drinks. That is the fact. He doesn’t eat meat, of course, but he says… He has got business, good business, plenty of money. I am poor materially, but Prabhupāda, my father, spiritual father, is so rich that I am getting money every day. Materially, I am poor, but I am so richer, you are giving so treasure… You see in our library there, we have so many nice library of each and every of your book downstairs, and more we read, we say, well plenty money is coming. [break] …from the temple. Life Member comes there. We sell the Gujarati magazine. I bought all magazines from Gujarati. Now second issue has not come. The same problem. I wrote to…

Prabhupāda:
This is…, have printed.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
But whatever I brought, it went within two, three weeks.

Prabhupāda:
So Yaśomatīnandana?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. Yes, I received his letter] …that “The next issue is in the press, and I’ll soon send.” And Gopāla dāsa I also written. Because there are many Gujaratis here, and they are becoming Life Members. They are helping very much in the temple. Anybody comes here, we send direct to the Manor. I say, “Here Kṛṣṇa is… Here we are. Here we have got everything by Kṛṣṇa’s grace, and all the help should go to this center.”

Prabhupāda:
You are preparing something of bitter melon?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Bitter? You mean the…

Prabhupāda:
Karelas.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Karelas. Brinjal also. Brinjal. Brinjal I have got. [Transl. Śrīla Prabhupāda, Gopāla Dāsa has asked me to translate Bhagavad-gītā. I have finished two chapters. There is some problem with money though. But he said, “Continue the work.” It’s good, I have three, four people sit together and do it. All are devotees, not professional, educated.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. All right. If they approve then it’s okay.]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. If you give permission I can read a portion of it to you.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Now?]

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Transl. Not now, but before you leave. Now you take rest. There is arrangement for your rest. Bhagavad-gītā must be printed in Hindi very quickly.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes.] [break]

Harikeśa:
How much is left?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
No, no, we just starting it. Prabhupāda approved that, starting, starting with two chapters three chapters.

Prabhupāda:
No, you can do one thing. Part by part, you publish in the Bhagavata-darśana: Hindi edition of Back to Godhead magazine so that he can…, everyone can see how it is. Then it will be good.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Oh, yes. No, I showed to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu when he came here. He also came here when he came to London. He came one day here, so I showed all these and I read little bit, still he said that…

Prabhupāda:
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa himself is not very expert.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
No. So he said that “Śrīla Prabhupāda is coming now,” so if you get a chance…

Prabhupāda:
No, I mean to say that whatever you have written, let it be published in the…

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Yes, I understand

Prabhupāda:
…so that everyone can see. Then we can understand.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
I see. So I will send to India chapter by chapter, and they can publish…

Prabhupāda:
With a letter that “Prabhupāda says like this, that you print in the Hindi edition of Bhagavata-darśana so that everyone will see, and they will judge how it is done nicely.”

Harikeśa:
Should I make this?

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
I’ll send the first chapter complete.

Prabhupāda:
Yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Duplicate it and keep one copy with me here and one copy send off, and they can publish in the Back to Godhead here.

Prabhupāda:
The difficulty is that in India, in different parts of India different standard. Somebody says, “This standard is good”; somebody says, “This standard is good.”

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Prabhupāda, we are not worried about the criticism.

Prabhupāda:
Eh?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
We are not worried about the criticism, anybody say. What you say, we’ll take that one line, the guide line.

Prabhupāda:
No, I am not authority in Hindi, but this Hindi, different parts of India, a different standard.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Yes, that’s true. That is why I had not depend on myself. It going there from the four people different, one after another, and they are qualified Sanskrit and Hindi scholars.

Prabhupāda:
That’s all right. Let it be published.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Completed corrections also. It’s not going by…

Prabhupāda:
So you can show me some samples which you have completed. Yes, you can show me some.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
[Indian man enters and speaks with Kṣīrodakaśāyī] Śrīla Prabhupāda, devotees are asking can you take prasāda and go to Manor? There’s some press coming, but without you they’re… Is it all right?

Prabhupāda:
Oh, yes. All right. I will take some time.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī:
Is it all right?

Prabhupāda:
I ordered…

Harikeśa:
Others, they are also waiting. The Indians, they are…

Prabhupāda:
So let them all take. You can also go down. [break] [Prabhupāda moves outside]

Hari-śauri:
If you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa:
Now it’s recording. [break]

Prabhupāda:
…word by word.

Kīrtimā[?]: And translate into English.

Prabhupāda:
Yes, you have to do it. You do it. Give him the book. Simply book. Why you are taking this? Yes.

Nirañjana:
[Transl. This is the thirteenth chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. It is entitled] “Nature, the Enjoyer and Consciousness.”* [The first two ślokas of this chapter are],

arjuna uvāca
prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva
kṣetraṁ kṣetra-jñam eva ca
etad veditum icchāmi
jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ ca keśava

**And the second śloka is,

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya
kṣetram ity abhidhīyate
etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ
kṣetra-jña iti tad-vidaḥ

Should I read the translation in Hindi?Prabhupāda:
Yes, so that…Kṣīrodakaśāyī: [Transl. Arjuna said, “My dear Kṛṣṇa, I wish to know from You about the prakṛti—nature, puruṣa—the enjoyer, kṣetra—the body, kṣetra-jña—the knower of the body and jñāna—the knowledge and the goal of knowledge.” The Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the abode of bliss, said “This body, o son of Kunti, is called kṣetra and one who knows this body is called kṣetra-jña or knower of the field.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Explain it little bit.]

Nirañjana:
[Transl. Arjuna is inquiring from Lord Kṛṣṇa about prakṛti. We all know what is prakṛti. If you ask anybody he would say that there is some supreme nature. But he does not that supreme nature belongs to Whom? You know that your nature is different from my nature. As for prakṛti people simply say it the supreme nature. That’s the highest object. So we should inquire Whose nature? Whose prakṛti? The Supreme Lord says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10] “The material nature is working under My direction.” So wherever there is prakṛti there is also *puruṣa. [Transl. The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this way, one who knows the body, the body has been addressed as kṣetra and the soul within the body has been addressed as kṣetra-jña. Arjuna is asking the Supreme Lord about this subject matter that what is prakṛti, who is puruṣa, what is kṣetra and kṣetra-jña?
[Transl. Actually the main conclusion of our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is that we are not these bodies. Just like you are wearing coat and shirt but we are talking to you and not to the coat and shirt, similarly, our this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement, we say that all living entities, not only the human beings but all living entities are parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are spirit souls living within the body. Another name for the Supreme Lord is Paramātmā, param-ātmā: the Supersoul.
[Transl. He is the Supersoul of all living entities. And we are His minute particles. In this way, we preach to the Americans, Africans, Indians, Germans or whosoever that you are not this body. You are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. You are servant of the Supreme Lord. And it is your duty to render service to the Supreme Lord. Just like the hand is a part of your body. If it wants to become happy it should pick up the food and put it in the mouth and when the food reaches the stomach then the hand will automatically become happy, simply because the hand is a part of the body.
[Transl. Similarly, we are also parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord. Therefore if we engage in the Lord’s service we will automatically become happy. Otherwise if the hand wants to become happy without supplying food to the stomach it cannot become. No matter how many rasagullas and gulabjamuns are kept in front of it and it touches them, until the hand puts them in the mouth it cannot become happy.
[Transl. In the same way, until every living entity renders service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead they cannot be happy. Just like a fish, if you keep the fish in a big house or big apartment, keep it before a television or place it in a sofa set, it will die without water. Our condition is like that only. We are suffering because we have forgotten the Supreme Lord. Similarly, if we again go back to the water of the Lord’s service then we will become happy.]

Prabhupāda:
You can explain this. Yes.

Nirañjana:
[Transl. p*urport?]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Yes.]*Nirañjana:[Transl. When Arjuna asked Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa about these subject matters then the Supreme Lord replied that the body is called kṣetra, and one who knows the body is called kṣetra-jña or knower of the field. This body, for the conditioned soul, is a field of activity. The spirit soul is certainly present within the body, but it acts through the medium of the body.
[Transl. For example, when the soul leaves the body then the same body, the eyes can no longer see, the nose can no longer smell, and the body is burned to ashes. But if you burn a living body you cannot even imagine what would happen. The soul has left the body. Because of the presence of the soul within the body we are seeing, we are talking, we are hearing. In this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda is explaining here that this body is a field of action. Though the soul is important, it acts through the body. Just like we are conditioned souls…]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Just like this spectacle, the spectacle does not see but the eyes see through the spectacle. If somebody says that the spectacle sees then it is foolishness. The spectacle doesn’t see. Similarly the soul is called kṣetra-jña. That kṣetra-jña is the real object. This kṣetra or the body is not the real thing. It is a medium. Just like the example was given that through the spects one sees, but the spects does not see. This should be understood.]

Nirañjana:
[Transl. In this way, we, the conditioned souls, are entangled by the network of māyā or illusion. And we are trying to become lord and master of the material nature. “There is no God, we are everything, we become happy, that’s all.” But according to our capacity, our ability we try to dominate and exploit the material nature. Whether a big man or an insignificant animal everyone thinks he is the proprietor of everything. According to one’s capacity…Even a mouse will steal something from somewhere as per it’s ability. The human being is big so he steals big. Everyone is stealing from the Supreme Lord without acknowledging that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the sole proprietor of everything. We find a śloka in Īśopaniṣada…]
**Prabhupāda: Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam.

īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ
yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat
tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā
mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam [Transl. “Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.”]

Nirañjana:
[Transl. That everything belongs to the Supreme Lord. So you take whatever you need and the rest you leave for other’s use. Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives an example that if a bag of rice or wheat is lying in the street, a bird will come eat a few grains and go away. But if a human being comes he will eat and also take away the whole bag to his house.
[Transl. This is the very reason why people from all over the world are starving for want of food, there is scarcity of food. There is plenty of foodgrains but people are stealing thinking it is their property without acknowledging God. So, our this body is the field of action. What is this body? It is a combination of different senses. It consists of five knowledge acquiring senses, five working senses, the mind and the false ego. Therefore as we are now conditioned by māyā, we can begin our devotional service to the Supreme Lord with the help of this body.
[Transl. At present we just want to work for our own sense gratification, sense pleasure. The body is the same. The senses are the same. Just like the eyes, the Supreme Lord has given you. You can watch cinema with these eyes or you can have darsana of the beautiful Deity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Śrī Rādhā-Gokulānandajī present right here with the same eyes. The senses are same but if you engage them in the service of the Supreme Lord then it becomes devotional service, otherwise it is sense gratification. And this results in further implications in the bondage of karma. Almost everyone nowadays, instead of realising himself as a spirit soul, thinks himself to be this body.
[Transl. If you ask anybody, “Who are you?” He would reply, “I am Indian. I am twenty-five or thirty years old.” That is this body. But who am I? You know before your body was very small. “I was small and now I have grown up. And I will become old. But I am the same person. Where has that small body gone which I once had?” That body has grown up to become a young body. Similarly, when you will become old then the same spirit soul will leave that body and enter into another body.
[Transl. When your sweater becomes old, your shirt becomes old, you simply give it up and put on a new shirt. In the same way, the soul is never annihilated. So, that person who, rather than accepting the body as self, realises himself as a spirit soul he is called kṣetra-jña or knower of the field. It is not at all difficult to understand the distinction between the body and the soul. Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the same example here that I had cited earlier.
[Transl. We change body from childhood to youth to old age. The body is changing twenty-four hours a day. According to science also constant actions and reactions are taking place in your body. Your body is changing twenty-four hours, every minute, every second. But your soul remains the same. The spirit soul residing within the body is same, but the body is constantly changing. This is the difference that one who knows the field of activity and actually realises the position of the spirit soul, he is called kṣetra-jña.
[Transl. In this way, we, the conditioned sous, can understand that we are different from the body. We can give another small example. You say, “My hand, my ear.” You don’t say “I hand, I nose, I mouth.” This means you are different from your hand, nose or ear. So the conclusion is your body is separate from your soul. We don’t say “I hand, I eyes,” rather we say “My eyes, my ear, my mouth.” So this further proves that your body and soul are separate from one another. The 13th śloka of the 2nd chapter of Bhagavad-gītā is;

dehino ’smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati [Transl. Just as the dehi or the spirit soul sitting in the body passes through the body from boyhood to youthhood to old, similarly, at the time of death the soul gives up the old body and enters into another body. Knowing this fact well the sober person, the wise, does not lament or feels sad about it. People cry and lament “Oh, he has died.” Who has died?

[Transl. The person whom you were thinking as your own is lying before you. And the living force that has left the body is never destroyed. In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā chapter two which is considered as the essesnce of Bhagavad-gītā, this subject matter has been described. In this way, one who knows that his body is constantly changing, he understands that he is kṣetra-jña.
[Transl. Sometimes we think, I am happy, I am mad, I am woman, I am dog, I am cat and so on. So this “I” is the kṣetra-jña. Dog, cat, woman are bodily designations. The “I”, the soul who is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is known as kṣetra-jña.]

Prabhupāda:
[Transl. Okay. All right.]

kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi
sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata
kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ
yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama
[Bg. 13.3]

Kṛṣṇa has spoken about the kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means the knower of the body, as He has already explained, that “I know that this is my finger.” I never say, “I finger.” So this body is kṣetrajña, the field of activities, and the soul is the proprietor or worker within the body. That is called kṣetrajña. This is already explained. He tried to explain… Because there are many ladies, so he tried to explain in Hindi. So here in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: “I am also kṣetrajña. I am also one of the knower of the body.” So what is the difference between the one kṣetrajña already explained, the soul, and this kṣetrajña, Kṛṣṇa? What is the difference between the two? That is explained here. Kṛṣṇa says that “I am also kṣetrajña.” Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: “But the distinction is that the individual soul is situated in that particular body, but I am situated in every body, all-pervading.” Sometimes they commit mistake that ātmā and Paramātmā, they are the same, but that is not the fact. Here Kṛṣṇa explains very distinctly that “I am also ātmā, but I am Paramātmā.” That is the distinction between God and us.

When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Para brahma.* They are anxious to realize Brahman, that I…, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi does not mean that “I am Para Brahman.” I am individual part and parcel of Brahman. Similarly, ātmā, Paramātmā; īśvara, Parameśvara. We should understand this distinction between ātmā, Paramātmā; Brahman, Para-brahman; īśvara, Parameśvara. So in the Vedic literature it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara. Īśvara* means controller. Every one of us, we are controller, either I control over my family or in my office or in my country. In this way everyone is a controller. I may be a controller. Not may be; in my limited jurisdiction I am also controller. You are also controller. So I may be a little greater controller, you may be a smaller controller and somebody may be greater than me. So in this way, if you study controllers, different types of controller, you’ll find there is junior and senior. The same person is senior controller in the family, but in the office he’s a junior controller. The same person is junior and senior at the same time. Somewhere he is junior, somewhere he is senior. In this way, if you study all different types of controller, you’ll see there is duality of controls. But when you approach somebody that He’s simply controller—He’s not controlled by others—that is Kṛṣṇa. This is analytical study of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So they have studied, all these Vedic scholars, especially Lord Brahmā. This is the statement of Lord Brahmā. Not only Lord Brahmā—Vyāsadeva, Nārada and recently big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, even Śaṅkarācārya, and latest, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya—everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller. And in the dictionary you’ll find what is religion. Religion means to accept a supreme controller. That is religion. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB. 6.3.19]. Dharma means the controlling laws given by God. That is called dharma. So real dharma… From all Vedic scriptures, from the version of all authorities, it is confirmed that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: “Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God, that “Here is God.” You are searching after God, and somebody, in disappointment, saying that “God is dead.” God is neither dead, nor it is fictitious, but it is factual, and here is this God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB. 1.3.28].

This is the verdict of the Vedic literature. There may be many other gods. They are expansions of the original Personality of Godhead. If anyone is interested to study the science of God, you’ll find it in the Vedic literature, how Kṛṣṇa expands by His plenary portion in different names of God. It is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs. 5.33]. That Absolute Truth is advaita, without any duality; acyuta, infallible. Advaita, acyuta, anādi. Everything has got its beginning, anything you… That is our material conception, because we have got the experience—anything we take, it has got a beginning. But Kṛṣṇa, He is described, advaita, acyuta, anādi: “He has no beginning.” And in another place it is also said,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
[Bs. 5.1]

Kāraṇam is the beginning. So just like my father is the cause of my personality; father, his father is the cause of his personality; in this way you try to find out the cause of the cause. You’ll find Kṛṣṇa as the cause of all causes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Everything must be caused by something. Cause and effect. So the śāstra gives the verdict that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
[Bs. 5.1]

So this institution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have started. Now we have opened this center. I am very glad that you are coming here, but study the science of Kṛṣṇa. Don’t remain blind. The science of Kṛṣṇa means science of God. The human life is meant for understanding the science of God. Athāto brahma-jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. “This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth—Brahman.” That Brahman, Para-brahman, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, when Arjuna studied Bhagavad-gītā, his conclusion was… He addressed immediately, Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].

Bhavān: “Yourself…” So don’t waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material conditional life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like. But that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you’ll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14].

So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, “Why I am being controlled?” But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā. Just like their so-called scientific way they are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot, because they are being controlled. So we should come to our senses that we cannot bring the laws of material nature under our control. We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be achieved when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]

If you actually want to be not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9].

Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is… Then yo jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]: “Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body.” At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13].

This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that “We are free. We can do whatever we like.” This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that’s all. This is not good life. You must be very serious, especially those who are Indians. They should take it very seriously. Because this Kṛṣṇa culture, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra in India, and if we Indians, we do not take full advantage of this great transcendental knowledge, then you are committing suicide.

So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don’t forget. Don’t be bewildered. Be in your position. Try to under… It is very easy. Bhagavad-gītā is not at all difficult to understand, and we have tried to explain as easy as possible, not that we have deviated from the original verse, just like others do it. We do not do that; there is no need. That is another blunder. We keep Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we still try to explain it. So I am very glad that you are all coming regularly, but take it. At least one day, this Sunday, you devote, seriously studying Bhagavad-gītā, and discuss amongst you whenever there is any doubt. There cannot be any doubt. The Bhagavad-gītā verses are so plainly explained, and… Just like here is one verse we are trying to read, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: “My dear Arjuna…” Arjuna is addressed as Bhārata. Because he belongs to the dynasty of Bharata, sometimes he’s addressed as Bhārata. So, very easy, that “I am also one of the souls. There are two souls. One, you are, and another, I am. So what is the difference between you and Me? That you know simply everything—not everything, but to some extent—about your body, but I know everything of everyone’s body.” That is the difference. I know the pleasure and pains of my body, you know the pleasure and pains of your body, but Kṛṣṇa knows the pleasure and pains of your body and pleasure and pains of my body. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe ’rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61].

Kṛṣṇa is situated… Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped in one place. Kṛṣṇa, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana: goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. That is Kṛṣṇa. I am sitting here; you are sitting here. I am not in my apartment, but Kṛṣṇa, although He is sitting in this temple, He is present everywhere: aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. In this way we have to study Kṛṣṇa very scientifically, and the books are there, and we have tried to explain as far as possible. Take advantage of this institution. Don’t waste a moment of your life. Take it very seriously. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko ’pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita].

This seriousness… Especially those who are educated, they should take serious consideration of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand each and every verse of Bhagavad-gītā, especially, and if possible Bhāgavatam. There are so many books. We have got program to publish at least eighty-four books like this, four hundred pages each. So we have already published fifty-four books. So if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa through science and philosophy, read these books. Otherwise—very easy method—come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That’s all. There is no difficulty.

Thank you very much.

Devotees:
Jaya! [end]