Room Conversation With Yogi Bhajan and Jain Muni [Mainly Translated Hindi]
[Predominantly Hindi throughout]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Harbhajan Singh Khalsa, also known as Siri Singh Sahib.]
[Transl….on the bank of river Gaṅgā.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes, there is. Navadvīpa. You went there?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. In 60’. In 49, er 59’.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. We have constructed a big āśrama in Navadvīpa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I stayed there. That big ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha…] Gauḍīya Maṭhas.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Tīrtha Mahārāja.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, Tīrtha Mahārāja. I was trying to remember him from a long time. What happened was that at that time Dr. Radhakrishnan was Vice President of India and he was invited to inaugurate the Viśva Dharma Sanmelan: World Religious Conference held in Calcutta in 59’. But we do maintain great faith in Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s instruction “Jīve dayā and nāme śraddhā,” compassion for all living entities and faith in the holy name. So I invited him, [Tīrtha Mahārāja] and he came and stayed there. Then he invited me also and I went there. So what I saw yesterday that I had seen for the first time during the Holi festival there in Navadvīpa in 59’. They dance and chant the holy name of Bhagavān. I heard a lot about these things from him.]
Prabhupāda: We have got a picture of Māyāpur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Māyāpur? Upendra? You have a picture of Māyāpur? Sample there?
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Then I was in the inauguration of their new Gauḍiya Maṭha in Delhi also.]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.
- [Conversation continues in Hindi, with Jain Muni also, discussing
Prabhupāda’s various centers around the world and Ratha-yātrā]**
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl Is there any difference between Gauḍiya Maṭha and your Society? Or they are the same?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. Hmm. Here it is.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. What’s this?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. This is our Mandir in Navadvīpa, Māyāpur.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Is it near Bhārat sādhu samāja...er…sevaka samāja?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. They have nothing in Navadvīpa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Because, I have been to their Society also.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. Māyāpur is actually situated on the opposite side of Navadvīpa. It’s on the eastern bank of Gaṅgājī.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I stayed there for one night.] [aside:] This is Māyāpur.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Mahārājajī, I have seen similar things in Yogi Bhajan’s centres also when I visited them. As you were describing, just as you have trained western people to become Hare Kṛṣṇas’, in the same way, for Sikh religion, we also live very simple and sāttvika life there, get up early in the morning and live in peace and harmony and as such hundreds and thousands of Westerners have converted into Sikh religion. They visited India also.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Svāmījī must be knowing something about us. At least some information.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Something.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. He might not know that many Indians have already come to America.]
*Guest: [Transl. Your this movement… Nobody can describe about it’s success.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Throught the whole world. Hare Rāma Hare Kṛṣṇa is known in the whole world.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Svāmī Bhaktivedānta, and at this age it is impossible without God’s grace, Lord Kṛṣṇa’s grace! They print about 6 lakh copies of magazines per month. You understand. More than that I have heard…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Gītā had given so much liberty like ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham, [Bg 4.11] but you have made it clear without any compromise and established the true ancient religion. This proves his spiritual power!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. He says that he is presenting the instructions of Gītā As It Is.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Actually in Bengal we have no other shelter than your āśrama. Where to stay? Where to go? Where to take ricksaw from? I have this conviction that it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s birthplace, so there is nothing to worry there. Otherwise it is not possible to stay in Bengal without fish and meat.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. It was almost finished before the influence of Svāmī Vivekānanda and Rāmakṛṣṇa Paramahaṁsa.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. They are the ones who started!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. They made it very difficult now. Just like in our Punjab now this Sardar Tara Singh has encouraged meat eating. But he had some wonderful power that although he was a Sikh and he established Sikh religion with proper rules and regulations only by his sheer power and not because of Sikh religion itself, whatever you call it, tantric power or yogic power, he did establish the Sikh religion. There is no doubt about it. And now he was made a bhakta of Guru Ramadas and also established Guru grantha sahib [scripture of the Sikhs] exactly as it is. My regard towards your speciality is that you have not made any compromise on any matter whatsoever. You have kept intact the same disciplic chain, same principles, same lifestyles, same foodstuffs and same spiritual activities. You have expertly guided your followers thoroughly.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. That’s why I specifically invited him yesterday for the ratha-yātrā.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I came only because of you. Straight from Toronto.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. From Toronto, just to watch the ratha-yātrā festival.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. We have got a temple in Toronto.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I have a group of 20 people.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. But he left them behind and came here two days earlier to see your ratha-yātrā!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Only 3 of us came. One is my friend Ashok…]
*Prabhupāda: [aside:] What is this?
*Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [bringing picture] Māyāpur. The farm project.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, yes. This is Māyāpur. They had two hundred bighas land. But now they must be having more.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Here in New York Cidānandjī Mahārāja will go there. Here they have made New Vṛndāvana on a 1000 acres of land with a big Goshalla.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Some Jains are founder members of this movement. They pay 2,200 Rupees and become members. They were telling me that everywhere these people provide foodstuffs, accommodations, everything because we poor people have no other choice when we travel. They were telling me. That Jagadish of Calcutta was telling me that I am a member of this Society.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. These are all photos of Vṛndāvana here. Goshalla. That is from our India. This is here?]
*Devotee: [Transl. That is old one.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Do you know Hindi?]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Little bit, because he lives in India. All those who live in India…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Svāmījī, isn’t it possible to stop killing male and female calves that are being killed here by making some arrangements that we… India will buy them or something?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Han?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. When the male and female calves increase in numbers they kill them. Can’t we make some system that…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, we maintan cows here.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. No, what I mean is these farmers in Taxas.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Like that the whole world…in Europe, America people are killing cows. It was us who started to protect and maintain them.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You are right. There is no doubt that you have actually started a big benovalent work.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. There was an article about us published in Nava Bharata Times in November of 1974. And the heading was, “Ādhyātmikatā ki Yamunā aur dudha dahī ki nadī vahi rahi hai.” [The Yamuna of spiritualism and the river of milk and yogurt are flowing.] About our New Vṛndāvana. They put a big heading.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You named it Vṛndāvana?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, New Vṛndāvana. These people are naming New York, New Jersey, New England, so we have named New Vṛndāvana, New Dvārakā.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. How far it is from New York?]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Mahārājajī, I have a request. Myself, Sarojini, Kamlapati Tripathi and many others have seen the film you have made about your activities, it was just wonderful! I have never seen such sights in the whole world. How amazingly it was created and filmed! I mean, if you watch it you will get so many new ideas! How long that film was?]
Devotee: Twenty.
Jain Muni: Twenty minutes. [Transl. So we would like to see that film. We will talk, but we must watch that film as well. First of all, Mahārājajī, we would like to beg your pardon that we would have liked all of them to come on stage.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. We invited on stage, nobody came!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. No one came.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. While sitting we enjoyed a lot. But we wanted to…]
*Jain Muni: [Transl . Introduce everyone to the local public.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I told you to give them chairs…]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Yes, Svāmījī had told…We wanted to introduce.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. The benefit of your association and instructions could not be fully accomplished by us.]
Devotee: This is Kṛṣṇa Balarāma Mandir, in Vṛndāvana, India.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I visited Vṛndāvana about ten or twelve years ago and stayed there for two, three nights.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. They asked us to take prasāda. Will take prasāda and go.]
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Jain Muni: They will take prasāda.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Let’s us talk first. Then we will eat.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. This is the main thing. Talk will go on, but prasāda is one of their main attractions to develop kṛṣṇabhakti.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. You kindly keep little quite, talk less.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Should I talk about the important point I wanted to? He is so excited to speak that sometimes he cannot stop and goes on talking. Even sometimes he speaks about things that should be discussed later. He goes ten steps ahead of others. [to Jain Muni:] Santubhai, we had a great desire to meet him personally and we finally got that opportunity. So let us relax a bit. [to Prabhupāda:] How do you manage things here as you have to go against their tradition and belief. How do you cope with their various oppositions?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. The Christians accept our movement! Not only do they acknowledge it but they praise us also! These children are ours only. Previously neither did they inquire about God nor did they go to churches. And now they have become mad after Bhagavān! This is very amazing!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. That is their appraisement. That is their appreciation of others’ good qualities. But what about the hardcore Christians? What do they have to say?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hardcore or non hardcore, they are about to be finished. I saw with my own eyes in London that about two to five hundred churches have been closed down.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I see.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Here also, we have purchased a few churches.] They have lost interest, the younger generation… [Transl. …they have no interest.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. How did you attract them so much in this way of life?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hmm. Our process is that…Even in Delhi I said the same thing everyone, in Nai Sarak [a road in New Delhi] there is a shop owned by a Punjabi who prepares everything cooked by pure ghee. And there you will find 50 to 60 customers thronging all the time. So my point is if the commodity is pure then you will surely find customers.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [laughs] [Transl. And now he has become very famous. In the beginning one has to struggle. But he meets success.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hmm! Some of my friends say that Mahārāja, you have created a wonder! I tell them, look, I don’t know any magic or anything. But this much I have done that I have not presented anything adultrated. Just like you said, I have not compromised.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Didn’t compromise on any principle. No mixture. But how did…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. If you manufacture then the original object is spoiled.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes. Still how did you manage to teach them or what’s the method of your teaching?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Our basic principle is Bhagavad-gītā!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Bhagavad-gītā, yes.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. The Supreme Lord says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg 7.7] So we repeat, my dear sir, you are searching for God, here is God, Kṛṣṇa. So I have nothing to manufacture! Bhagavān Himself says this! And it’s correct, because who can be greater than Bhagavān!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Nobody can be. Hmm.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Bhagavān instructs, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg 18.65]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Man-manā…Hmm.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Always think of Me. Become My devotee. Offer your obeisances to Me and worship Me.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg 18.66] But my question is how do you take this principle, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. That is Bhagavān’s demand. Bhagavān orders, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and we say, here He is, take shelter of Him. That’s all. Our duty is… That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa. [Cc Madhya 7.128]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Very nice.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Means by My order, by My order all of become gurus! So then what is Your order, tell us? That yāre dekha, tāre kaha ’kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa… yāre dekha tāre kaha Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Yes, yes.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Whoever you meet you simply explan to him what Lord Kṛṣṇa has instructed. That’s all, and you become guru!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. When I read Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s instruction, this line comes in my mind and I take full advantage of that. Every Bengali who comes, asks me, what is this, what is this? So I thought what to answer. Neither the whole world understands it, nor they wear sādhu’s code of conduct. So I put two sets in our place.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Please come in. Come.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. This is my śāstra and my guru now. This much I tell them and the Bengalis keep quite. This line I always quote.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Please come. Come.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. That you were saying about Bengalis?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I tell them this is my guru’s order. Immediatly inquiry ends there. They don’t ask anything further. Actually it’s true that you start your preaching from that point only. But His process of spiritualism, meditation and chanting the holy name make people purified.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Our main subject matter of preaching is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu ‘s philosophy. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ’kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. Instruction we haven’t got to manufacture. I am a fool. What can I instruct? Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Whatever instructions Kṛṣṇa has given we simply repeat. “Sir, this is what Kṛṣṇa has instructed, kindly follow this.” That’s all. This is the secret. I myself follow and I teach them to follow the same. The job is done!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You are right. All extraordinary power automatically…]
Prabhupāda: I am against manufacturing religion. I am totally against. [Transl. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. [Bg 4.2] Through disciplic succession as the Supreme Personality of Godhead has instructed, imaṁ vivasvate yoga proktavān aham avyayam … [Bg 4.1] er… sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa [Bg 4.2]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Right. Hmm.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. So the yoga that had been lost I am reviving it again. That’s all.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. True. You have removed all that was mixed in it. And that was harmful for our country.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. That’s all. This adulteration habit ruins everything.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I was always afraid of one thing. It was in my mind form years together. Good that you have cleared this. I used to always say in our country…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. You open this…Fourth Chapter.]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: You can read. Fourth Chapter. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First verse.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Once I also wrote a commentary on Bhagavad-gītā.]
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I also wrote a commentary. It was published from Bombay. With photos inside. At that time the price was 60 rupees. But by the will of Bhagavān…]
Devotee: śrī-bhagavān uvāca imaṁ vivasvate yoga proktavān aham avyayam vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave ’bravīt [Bg 4.1] Translation: “The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.” Purport?
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Devotee: “Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the kings of all planets. This science is especially meant for the protection of the inhabitants, and therefore the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, in eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science…”
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, [Transl. Not cheaters, saintly kings. The moment these talkative cheaters began to comment on Bhagavad-gītā it got spoiled.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You didn’t explain about Ikṣvāku,] Hmm. Right. The new manufacture the cheaters have presented.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Has made things worse because they…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Got lost!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Molded people towards themselves only. I am greatly impressed by this…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I am acquinted with him.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. yogiji… because he didn’t write any book of his own and practicing his own line of philosophy. He simply explains the path given in the Guru grantha sahib as it is. That is his speciality. But in fact, we always feel proud about your achievements in all of our meetings.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Now bhagavān says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ, that I spoke this knowledge to sūrya–nārāyaṇa, sūryadeva, and these people argue, do people live there?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [laughs] [Transl. It has spiritual meaning.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. These people are deadly convinced that only this planet has got living entities and all other planets are vacant. Our śāstra do not say like that. Everything is described in details about all the planets. Who lives where.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. How do you solve problems of those who approach you with such theories?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. What solve…When Bhagavān Himself declares, that itself is the solution!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. For example, whats’ the solution of their going to the moon planet?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. About the moon our śāstra says…We say they didn’t go there at all! This is because in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it says that the moon is situated one million six hundred thousand miles above the sun. The situation of the sun is at the middle of the universe. And the diameter, from one circumference to another is four billion miles?]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four billion miles.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Four billion miles. This is according to our śāstra. The sun is in the middle. So from one circumference it is two billion miles and they say 93 million?]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Million.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. So if we accept their 93 million and then above that one hundred and six hundred thousand miles you add that is the distance of the moon from the earth.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. All this is mentioned in the Khagola. [celestial sphere or Astronomy.] There is not much difference between Khagola and Vedic dharma. Bhugola [Geography and Khagola] are almost same. They are of the same pattern as the computer measures them.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, but one thing is definite that above the sun, if the sun is 93 million miles away then above that 1 million and six hundred thousand. Then 93 and 1, that comes to about 94. Can they go 94 million miles! It’s impossible!]
Yogi Bhajan: Hmm.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Apart from that, it is described in the śāstra that those who live in Candraloka, they are all demigods. And their duration of life is ten thousand years according to the celestial years.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. According to celestial year.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. And these people say it is desert! So There is a gulf of difference between theories and the actual truth. But Bhāgavatam give us clear descriptions about the whole universe. About Śiśumāra chakra, [a constellation of fourteen stars in ancient Vedic astronomy which resembles like a porpoise.] and what exists where.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Everything is mentioned. Also in the fifth canto Lord Ṛṣabhadeva explains this. And His description is actually true which is recorded in the fifth canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Actually He was originally a brāhmaṇa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl, So these people read all the śāstras? Can they read Sanskrit? They can read?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes. They are taught how to read. In Dallas we have opened a gurukula. There the small boys are taught Sanskrit and English.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. In such a short time, I think you came in the West in 1966.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I came here in 65’ but the work started from 67’.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Within such a short time to influence so many people, to print so many English books, to open so many centres, and schools, and keep everything in order.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Now we are losing our tradition and these people are adopting. I opened two Sanskrit Vidyāpīṭha [educational institutions] in Delhi but they didn’t last long. With great difficulty 200 to 250 students were admitted, but people have lost interest in it.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. They have become obsolete.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I even arranged for their accommodation and food. But no use! I have to close down one. Now two are barely functioning. But It’s just not running! Only yesterday I wrote a letter to them to immediately close down one. Two cannot go on.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. There are no students?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. No students and it’s difficult to make arrangements! Arrange for food, arrange for accommodation and upon that people are losing taste for it. So I have to close down one and keep only one on. Mostly brāhmaṇa-boys are coming to study not others. May be only a few others. But only a few from Delhi city, most of them are coming from villages thinking they might get a good job in Delhi later on. Most of them leave though after a while. Hardly hundred students stay on.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Kalau śūdra sambhava: In Kali-yuga all are śūdras. Nobody is brāhmaṇa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, like that. [aside:] towards to North. North America.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. You are [indistinct]. I received a telephone from Alexandriya. His name was Rudraram.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, Rudraram. Your good name?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. My name is B.D. Joshi. I belong to Raipur. He called me and said that if you find Sushil Muni and also Svāmī Gangesvaranand…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I think he is not here. Probably he’s gone.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. No, he came.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. He left.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. He phoned me asking where will go from here?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I will stay here two, three days and then…You write down my phone number or Śivānanda āśrama’s phone number where I am presently stayng.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. The address I gave you, it’s written there only.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yogiji is there. I will talk to him later.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. May I know your good self?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I am known as Yogi Bhajan. Harbhajan.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Oh, I have heard this name many times.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. He is always active, happy, healthy, holy.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Are these boys trained as sādhus only or as gṛhastha, has as well?]
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Among these people some of them are sādhus, sannyāsīs…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes. Some of them are sannyāsīs and some are gṛhasthas.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. But their marriage etc… Vedic…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes. Marriage, I conducted some of their marriage despite being a sannyāsī myself.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. [laughs sarcastically] One has to compromise some things to some extent for a good cause.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. When they joined me they had girl friends with them. I said, “look, these friends and all, will have to stop. Get married.”]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Then you became a barrister. You became a barrister for them.]
*Prabhupāda: [to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:] Have you got the old pictures when I am acting as priest in Boston, like that? [Transl. So my godbrothers have criticized me for this.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. So you must have introduced the dāha saṁskāra [funeral rites] as well?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Nobody has died yet!] [laughter]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. But you have arranged something for that?]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Total how many followers do you have?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Ten thousand.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Mahārājajī says he has got ten thousand followers with him. Of them how many are sannyāsīs? One thousand?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, the number of sannyāsīs is less. About twenty or twenty five.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Not many sannyāsīs. May be twenty to twenty five, rest are all…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. This daṇḍa…]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. That is meant for the sannyāsī.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. This is for vaiṣṇava sannyāsī. Tridaṇḍi.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Usually it is ekadaṇḍi…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. Mayāvādi sannyāsīs are ekadaṇḍi. Just today one of them accepted sannyāsa. In the daṇḍa four sticks are stuffed together. One daṇḍa is the recipient himself, and the three other daṇḍas: sticks are karmaṇā manasā vācā...] [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.187]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. The point is to dedicate the mind, speech and everything…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Dedicate everything in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I believe the sādhu samāja of the tridaṇdi sannyāsīs and that of the Jains as you must have read it are exactly the same. Like don’t touch fire, don’t touch woman…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes. Proper fire sacrifice is performed!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Don’t take any intoxicants. Didn’t Jagadguru Ādi Śaṅkarācārya compromise all this? There was a problem for that at that time. But when it comes to our turn what we do is also applicable to him! He too, realising the spiritual requirement in the society today,…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, in the śāstra, Nārada muni gives instructions to Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja.
yasya hy yat lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ
varṇābhivyañjakam
yadi anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet
[SB 7.11.35]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, he did mention some ways as to how to manage society. Same like the meaning of brahma–sūtra and all that. We have four aphorisms. One should consider them carefully and go forward in life.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Bhagavān Himself has said,
cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
[Bg 4.13]
Also in another place Bhagavān has said,
māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye ’pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
*striyo vaiśyās tathāśūdrās te ’pi *
*yānti parāṁ gatim
- [Bg 9.32]
Yogi Bhajan: śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
[Bg 5.18]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. It says further] kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśāābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. [aside:] You can find out this verse. I think it is Second Canto. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśāābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. What could be more beneficial for the unity of the nations than this? What could be better mantra for unity of all nations, kindly tell me.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, what I say is keep Bhagavad-gītā as the standard medium and preach this then everybody will accept it and it is authorised also.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. It is acceptable.]
Devotee:
kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
ye ’nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ
[SB 2.4.18]
“Kirāta, Hūṇa, Āndhra, Pulinda, Pulkaśa, Ābhīra, Śumbha, Yavana, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to His being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him..”
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. This is the verdict of Śukadeva Gosvāmī.] Purport?
Devotee: “Kirāta: A province of old Bhārata-varṣa mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. Generally the Kirātas are known as the aboriginal tribes of India, and in modern days the Santal Parganas in Bihar and Chota Nagpur might comprise the old province named Kirāta.
“Hūṇa: The area of East Germany and part of Russia is known as the province of the Hūṇas. Accordingly, sometimes a kind of hill tribe is known as the Hūṇas.
“Āndhra: A province in southern India mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. It is still extant under the same name.
“Pulinda: It is mentioned in the Mahābhārata, [Adi 174.38] that is, the inhabitants of the province of the name Pulinda. This country was once conquered by Bhīmasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of Mahābhārata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bhārata, and the inhabitants were classified among the kṣatriya kings. But later on, due to their…”
Prabhupāda: Pulinda, they are mentioned in the Greeks.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Pulinda?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hmm. All these races are mentioned. And Khasādayah [Mongolians.]]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You have taken Kakesians as Hunas.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, Huna is a race in Europe still present. It is north of Germany.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. They are called as Huns?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes.] [aside:] Is it not there? [Transl. They are not very civilized. The Russians belong to that, Huns. And Mongolians.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. They call themselves Salahs though. They belong to Salah race.]
Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. But Śukadeva Gosvāmī declares, śudhyanti, everyone can be purified. Why? Prabha viṣṇave namaḥ*. That is the power of Lord Viṣṇu!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Vaiṣṇava sampradāya.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. *Vaiṣṇave jāti buddhi. *One should not consider the vaiṣṇavas as belonging to a particular caste. It it stated in the śāstra. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir [Padma Purāṇa]. To consider the Deity form of the Supreme Lord as śīlā, it is very offensive. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir, to consider the spiritual master as an ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir. To consider the Ganges water as ordinary water. These things are prohibited in the śāstra. Such persons are addressed as nārakī: [hellish]. This is in the śāstra!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I did get the opportunity to live by the Ganges starting from Rishikesh to Calcutta. It is very beneficial.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. That is also a farce! Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrthaṁ. [SB 12.2.6] Gaṅgājī flows in Calcutta, but they don’t have much faith! They will go to Haridvāra to take a dip!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Haridvāra Rishikesh.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrthaṁ. If you go little away it is tīrtha: holy. This is written in the śastra.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Actually after Patna there is no tirth! The last one is Gaṅgā-sāgara [Diamond harbour. West Bengal] There is no tirtha in Patna also. After Beneras…Aṅga, Baṅga, Kaliṅga, Saurastra. With our visiting the holy places one’s existence is not purified. But yes, I agree that this vaiṣṇava philosophy is correct and that brāhmovāda which was going on is not right. That is why different sampradāyas and paths have been manufactured.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. They have interpreted in their own ways.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. When Lord Kṛṣṇa says,
māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye ’pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
then take it that in Europe, America all are Pāpayoni [sinful people]. Our Hindu calculation says, they are mlecchas, yavanas, untouchables, and so on, so on. But Bhagavān declares, ye’pisyuḥ papa-yonayaḥ striyo śūdrās tathāvaiśyās te’pi yānti parāṁ gatim, if they take shelter of Me they too will attain the supreme destination. But who will teach them? Who will teach the sinful species to attain the supreme destination? Someone must teach them. Bhagavān has ordered that the sinful people…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I saw Negros…]
Prabhupāda: Eh?
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I saw some Negros in this temple yesterday.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes, Negros we have. Many.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Russians? You went to Russia.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Do you have a centre there?]
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogi Bhajan: Really!
Prabhupāda: Yes!
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Are you allowed to preach there?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In Iran, we have.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Iran is okay. It can go on in Iran.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I think the Sikhs also have something in Iran.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. The Sikhs have a huge organization in Iran. The Indians are given a lot of respects there because that is the biggest Gurudvāra!]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. in Iran?]
Yogi Bhajan: Yes.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Iran means Tehran?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, Tehran. I know so many persons there.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. We have got Musselmans also!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I see.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In London we have got.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. They too do kirtan!]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In Tehran also we have got.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I see. The Shias.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In Tehran, my disciple’s name is Attar. I gave him spiritual name Ātreya Ṛṣi.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. That probably is from atash, atra. Hmm.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In Poland, I have a disciple named Dr. Ramjan. I gave him spiritual name Rāma-rañjana.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Rāma-rañjana. [laughs] Wah!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. He makes Hindustan proud or Hindustan makes him proud.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. He pleases Rāma or Rāma pleases him. If they help each other and he becomes attracted to Bhagavān then his life will be successful. So that means wherever you have got disciples you have to visit?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes! That is the difficulty.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. That’s a big problem.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. If I live three to four days in one centre then the whole year will be covered.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Virāṭa–puruṣa: [Universal personality!] [laughs]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. To teach them I have appointed twelve secretaries. GBC. Now I am personally training them all over the world. He is also one of the GBCs.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Have you appointed any Indian secretary among them?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. One is Indian.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [to Tamala Kṛṣṇa:] [Transl. What is your acquaintance? What is your name?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. He doesn’t know Hindi.]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī.
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa!]
Jain Muni: He was in India. [Transl. He stayed in India.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I think there was one more, I forget the name like Rāmānujam vaiṣṇava, I was reading yesterday. He was present in yesterday’s program. There is one more name.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. They are quite a few names. All the names are written in the pamphlet.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. This one here is also a…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. He is also a sannyāsī.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. He is also one of the secretaries?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hmm. He is one of the…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Twelve secretaries. Then you will engage these twelve to manage the whole world by dividing their respective zones.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Hmm. I have allotted them different zones and they manage.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Very good system you made.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. New York is their headquater.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Where in New York [indistinct] do they have the biggest centre? Only some years ago they did not know God.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. In Bombay you have got a big temple.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes, Bombay.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. It’s difficulty to preach in India.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Well, they have a big one in Vṛndāvana!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes, but what I am saying is different.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Now India wants money only. Somehow or other get money. They gave up everything else.]
B.D. Joshi: I wrote in one of my letter, I say, “I love you very much. Is my Motherland. But one dollar sent to you puts down eight Americans in communication. I regret, I can’t take that terrible loss. Therefore the sanction brings to that.” But you are great. You have built lot of temples there.
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Yes! In Vṛndāvana, such a huge temple! In Bombay it is very costly!]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Not a single paisa has been spent from local.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. They are constructing a large temple in Bombay. The land is very big.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In Bombay, in Hyderabad.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. In Hyderabad they have acquired 700 acres of land.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Golden temple is built with lakhs of rupees.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. It’s about 600 acres, isn’t it?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Golden temple is their guru’s shrine and the followers have donated automatically. They have given.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Lakhs of rupees have been spent there.]
B.D. Joshi: Question is very simple. As far as Golden Temple is concerned, that is Delhi’s house. [Transl. Rich religious minded people usually donate for their own dharma. That’s not surprising. But not for…] They have lot of temples and a lot of Gurudvāras, and let them learn to by themselves. [Transl. Why spoil these people?] I have no time to spoil it. He is great. That is what I want to learn, how he can do that. And I don’t believe that. My territory, they define. It starts… It ends at the Suez Canal.
Prabhupāda: Suez Canal means whole Mediterranean.
B.D. Joshi: Yes, Mediterranean. And there I have up to Singapore, Malaysia. So I said, “Well, you have forgotten writing down Burma, and you never wrote a word about India, so goodbye.” That is not our territory. [Transl. Therefore it was saved! If Bhagavān saves who can do otherwise?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. The entire Sikh religion is on my head.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Our philosophy is simple.] Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg 5.29].
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. *Sarva-loka maheśvara. *Hmm. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka maheśvara. So who do we spare? Everything belongs to Bhagavān!]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. What you are saying is right, but Bhagavān is so great that He is sitting there too! There are so many temples there. Once I decided that I will visit all the temples in Haridvāra five times each. And believe it or not it took me eighteen days!]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Here also, because of our temple bells the whole neighbourhood is.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Complaining. Actually I wanted to tell you.] We have the best attorney here in this area, and you are having a trouble with this temple. If you… Somebody if you can call, because in this area he is the best law attorney.
Prabhupāda: So, you can take the address.
Devotee: We have their phone number.
B.D. Joshi: We won that… Recently he won a very big case. This is our daily fight, but it comes on you sometimes. We fight it daily. We fight before it happens to us. If I was to buy this temple I would have insured the title in a suit case, and I would have filed the suit myself first, on the neighbourhood.
Devotee: Yes, well they had approved our moving in.
B.D. Joshi: That is something later, but I have talked with. That is simple. I would have sued this area. I have heard that I can be damaged, I would have sued them five million dollars, all this area, vicinity. I could have proved it, because I would have done it. Moment they would have filed the case, proof was there. I had not to prove. Their own document would have proved it. But you know that attorney they had.
*Jain Muni: [Looking at the pictures.] [Transl. They too are participating in Kumbhamelā?]
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
B.D. Joshi: So I think here in this case, because this is one of the typical case. Their plea is very simple plea against which you have to come out with a very strong argument. They say it were the temple, a certain frequency. You have changed the frequency, and therefore you have disturbed the environment and the ecology. I studied the entire case. I got all my information sale and I got it. So that’s their main contention. Now what you have to prove is very ticklish. Therefore each paper must be filed very comparatively right, because this is they call invocation of the zonal area. To relieve the pressure on the subsidies of the zones and that law is Amendable. So if your attorney comes down the defence of it, and then you can get under Amendment One, and then they can’t touch you. It’s a very, very good fight. We fought it. That’s why… And we won it. They got us on the same point. But what we did was, we had already filed a complaint, or we knew it was going to come. That case went out of the court just like that.
Devotee: We will consult with your attorney.
Yogi Bhajan: No, no, he is expert. They have figured it out. Because we are very conspicuous in this some way. You get away with things, you know, you are all right. But with us it is not. “That’s the man. Get him.”
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have legal battles wherever we go.
B.D. Joshi: We have a battle on every step. We wear a kirpan [Sikh knife], we have a battle on every step. They say, “It is a knife. You can’t carry it.” We fight every few steps. Social dangers… We have more social aggressive dangers than you. But if you just channel it on a patterned style, you know, pattern thirteen. Now what we fight is this fight is pattern thirteen. Fight it. We go, we go through.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. We conduct religious conference from time to time. We hold it every three, four, five years. The ācāryas of all religious groups are invited.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. This time you arrange such a meeting in Vṛndāvana.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Let us see.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. These people have plenty of space. We have seen the pictures.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. This religious conference means Hindu dharma.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Sir, your Gurudvāra is here?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. It’s not mine. It belongs to the gurus.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. These gurus.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. No. we manage it. He operates only. He is not a guru. He is Sikh, but of a different kind. But the endeavour is going on to convert him to a Sikh.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. I heard yours is called an āśrama or something else?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. It is called āśrama. Guru Ramadasa āśrama. He has huge faith in Guru Ramadasa. We have opened one Yoga-vidyā centre and he teaches there. Not that he is… Just a Sikh. We have offered him a post called “Singh sahib.” They are all one. But he has no say in the supreme direction of the “Akal takht: one of the five seats of power of the Sikhs.”]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. He is then a trustee of Akal takht?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes. They are not his own property. All properties belong to the institution, and it will remain so. If he has got personal property, that’s another thing. But he has done a lot here. This is very special about him that despite doing everything he has dedicated all unto Guru. Neither he, nor his son, nor his wife or family members have anything.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Do you live in San Francisco?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. I live on the aeroplane.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. He tours and gives lectures in the universities.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. All right. I am very glad to meet you.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Welcome.]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is Nanda Kumāra ready?
Devotee: Nanda Kumāra is… Do you want to take here or…?
Prabhupāda: No.
Jain Muni: In that room.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. If I invite you sometime for the religious conference, kindly…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I will come.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. If you like to. We have got your contacts and addresses, and we will write to you if you accept.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. This your World Fellowship…]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. All the details are given on the back page of it, Mahārāja. On the back everything is written.]
Jain Muni: World Fellowship of Religion. [Transl. First Kirpal Singh was the president, and he was sponsored by him only. Now he is the president, Manager.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I started it in 54’. Since then it is going on.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Just last year we held one. I am also one of the organizers.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. I am conversant with Dvārakāpīṭha’s… Śṛṅgerī Maṭha’s [The original seat of Ādi-śaṅkarācārya] Śaṅkarācārya. I met him. This Tīrth Mahārāja, Bhakti Tīrthjī, I couldn’t meet him for many years. Finally I had a meeting and I invited him. And he did the inauguration of that conference. Hmm.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. I will call Lala Nidhiram in this number.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Yes. You tell him. Actually, he is always ready wherever we go.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. No, he is the one who telephoned first.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. The Unity of Man Conference which Yogiji had arranged…]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. I did invite him [Prabhupāda] for that!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Yes, but he is organizing another one, no?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. That will be held in Mexico. And I will invite him too.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. In 76’.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I had already told you that unity is never going to be possible.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [laughter]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. There are so many religious heads, many Fathers have come forward, others have also participated.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Not like that. Until all people become God-minded it is not…]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. The moment people become God-minded that will happen. But in the meantime, let us go on endeavouring.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. God Himself has confirmed it duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. [Bg 8.15]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Then shouldn’t we try?]
Prabhupāda: But where? This is a house of misery! Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. It is a place of misery, and [Transl are trying to compromise! It’s a place of miseries and you are proposing, all right, it’s a place of miseries, doesn’t matter, we will adjust things and live here. That also will not be allowed. After some time, aśāśvatam, get out of here! We don’t want to go but we must go. Get out from here!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. We are very happy to meet and hear from you the scriptural instructions coming down through disciplic succession. You preach and induce people…]
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are not anxious to adjust things here. [Transl. We consider those as problems, as I had explained yesterday also, Bhagavān says the real problems are janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [birth, death, old age and disease]. [Bg 13.9] But nobody touches those problems! They get entangled in temporary problems.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. So what to do about birth, death, old age and disease?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Try not to take birth, not to die! And here no matter how much adjustment you make you will have to die! But nobody wants to die! So if there is any way to stop those then you should endeavour for it. Then he is a human being. But nobody tries for it. The big, big scientists are there, they prepare bombs to kill people! They are already dying anyway!]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. They couldn’t make anything to save the dying people. Couldn’t prepare anything! And your movement is meant to inform people about their eternal life. Yes, there is a gulf of difference. All others are simply speaking on the material platform.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. We only preach that try to understand Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa. Even little bit. Bhagavān Himself says,
janma karma ca me divyam
yo janati tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti
[Bg 4.9]
Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Then you will never take birth again.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. But there is happiness in taking birth, no?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [to Jain Muni] [Transl. You should stay back here then. [laughs] Doesn’t matter if you don’t want to go back.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. There is happiness in being born? Is there happiness within the womb of the mother? One has to live there in such a condition for ten months…]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Now forgot all that.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes, forgot.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Could you sing Hare Kṛṣṇa a little bit now, Mahārāja?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Well, it’s been a long time…] You ready?
Upendra: Just preparing.
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Any more special instruction for us?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Special instruction is you are a preacher of nonviolence, so arrange to stop killing cows in India at least.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. But Indians need to wear leather shoes! Perhaps it will not be possible.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Probably you don’t know we also have some plan for go–rakṣya.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. In our śāstra, Bhagavān says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ [Bg 18.44] Special stress is given on cow protection. He didn’t say about any other animal.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. But the problem lies in our unity. Any initiative we have taken to protect the cows…But we are in favour of cow protection.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No, in our Bhārata-varṣa, during the reign of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, a black man was attempting to kill a cow and immediately God, I mean, Mahārāja Parīkṣit stopped him. Who are you? You want to kill cow in my kingdom! So where is that king now? Therefore]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. We will do that. That we will do.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. That’s what you were told. You carry a kirpan [a Sikh knife] of a kṣatriya, so act like a kṣatriya!]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. That we will do. For them it is not possible. That we will do. My point is we have got two lakhs. It didn’t spread much as yet. It will take five, six lakhs to bend the others. As soon as we will have five, six lakhs in numbers we can fight and bend even ten lakhs of opposite numbers.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. You do have a reputation as a Sikh community, I personally know about it. Two wars that the Britishers won is because of these Sikh soldiers. I have seen it. Due to Sikh soldiers. So if the Sikhs take up the kṣatriya duty and some become brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas are required.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. We will send them to you to make brāhmaṇas. I actually asked three, four of my students, go to Prabhupāda, live there and learn what he teaches. He will train you properly.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. If we cooperate like this…You take charge as the kṣatriya and I will train them as brāhmaṇa. What we need is brain. Brain means brāhmaṇa. And the kṣatriyas are arms.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. So you both are taking the whole responsibility then what is left for me?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Haven’t I written you a letter? I already gave you the agreement letter!]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Didn’t I tell you on the way to pick up Bhaktivedāntajī and I will pick him up?]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Come here Yogiji]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. What I say is that If Akal takht gives me the power and mother Durgā gives me power then those people will be ostracized from the society who will associate with those Indians who have eaten cow flesh. And those who have honestly distributed the Indian culture for them the śāstra is still unknown.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Śāstra is still unknown.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. *Śāstra *works when śastras] [weapons are behind it.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. The statements of the śāstra are śastras. There are two items for administration, one is śāstra and the other is śastra.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. He is talking about śastra [weapon.]]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. I am also talking about śastra.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Nārāyaṇa, Brāma, Pāśupata, Varuṇa.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. I know one thing, it is all right for cows, but I have seen Bhagavān! But In God’s organization he is the person. They don’t know anything beyond the word God. This organization is here, whatever it is it’s all right. I told my boys that if you are not within the organization then you get out. Because] good is two words, two o’s. You have to be God first, then to be good to anybody. [Transl. First of all, have faith that there is God. They don’t have faith only. But cow protection and service to the brāhmaṇas—this is our Guru’s words.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Go-brāhmaṇa hitāya ca.] [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.19.65]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. That is our Guru’s order and we must follow it. But] charity begins from home. [Transl. But we will have to prepare a list of those people who have already eaten and drunk!]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. When we offer our obeisances to Bhagavān we say] Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca.
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. If you killed the cows and brāhmaṇas then what do you have left? Only rākṣasas!]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. That’s all! What else?]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. So Svāmījī, these people of yours are receiving the orders of the śāstras and guru. But for now we only want nonviolence.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Nonviolence is the greatest dharma. Nothing is superior…]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. No. If you consider the point of nonviolence then Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg 2.20] Violence…Our calculation of violence, we say that only in this human form of life can one achieve Bhagavān. And if one is not given that opportunity then that is real violence or enviousness.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. You are absolutely right.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Because, he is to get something, but he is not given that thing that is real violence. In spite of having the opportunity he is not given the real thing but given all fake things and then his life is spoiled.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Actually Svāmijī, violence, nonviolence are all in illusion and in non illusion. Illusion means to forget Bhagavān. And no illusion means consciousness as you preach. So the point is the same if one is in illusion then he will certainly take to violence. This is the sastric injunction. Bhagavān also says this.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Bhāgavata also states this.
nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
[SB 5.5.4]
So long people engage in sinful activities, why? Because yad indriya prītaya āpṛṇoti, only for sense gratification. Not for anything beneficial. Yad indriya-prītaye.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. That means they are servants of the senses. Only when they conquer the senses can they realise Bhagavān.] [aside:] So? We have made?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. So please take little prasāda. Please go.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Mahārāja, first of all you come.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Yes, let us go. Prasāda is simply nonviolence!]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Kindly let me click a photo. All of you please come to one side.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. You too. With you.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. All right.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Mahārājajī, you may have to come little up here.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. No, Mahārājajī can just stand here only. You stand here only.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. We could have taken sitting all together here only.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Better to sit down. Sit down here. Yogiji, you come this side.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. You sit down first.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. You too sit down. I will also sit. Let everyone sit down.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Hari oṁ tat sat.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Make sure nobody is left out.]
*Jain Muni: [Transl. Anyone wants can come.]
Prabhupāda: Give him pad. [Transl. Do you need one?]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. No, I don’t.]
*Prabhupāda: [Transl. Sit down.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Everyone will fit in the frame.]
*Yogi Bhajan: [Transl. Stand and sit–that’s all to do.]
*B.D. Joshi: [Transl. Daṇḍa is but in your hands only!]
[end]