Room Conversation

8 September 1969Hamburg Room conversation690908r1.ham

Vedic civilization, unless one is inquisitive for the solution of the problems, he is not on the human being standard.

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Prabhupāda:
…Vedic civilization, unless one is inquisitive for the solution of the problems, he is not on the human being standard. Because there are so many problems. The animals cannot inquire, but a man can inquire. So unless one comes to this point, to inquire how these problems can be solved, he’s not developed to human consciousness. He’s still in animal consciousness.

Actually, the problem is that… What is this human civilization, advanced civilization? They are trying to solve problems. One problem is presented, and they try to solve it. Just like at the present moment they have manufacture atomic bomb, and all the nations are anxious to keep peace, and they have started that United Nation organization to solve the problems. Although they are unable, but they are trying.

So advancement of civilization means by nature some problem is offered, and they are trying to solve it. Anything you take, it is an attempt for trying to solve the problem. Just like in your country there is subway. What is that subway? Because on the surface there is enormous traffic, to solve this problem they want to go underground. And in this way somebody thinks, “Oh, Western countries are advanced than the Eastern countries. They have made some solution.” But after that, there is another problem. So problem after problem.

So what is the ultimate problem? The ultimate problem is we do not want to suffer. That’s all. We want comfortable, peaceful life. This is the ultimate problem. Is it not? Just think over. That is… In Sanskrit language it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. Ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ, to solve the problems of miseries.

We don’t want any kind of misery. We don’t want to suffer. We want very peaceful and joyful life. That is… But that is not being possible within this material world. That is the problem. The living entity is, by nature, he wants joyful life… Ānandamayo ’bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12].

Abhyāsāt. Abhyāsāt means by natural tendency he wants joyful life. But… There is a song, Bengali song. A poet writes, sukhera lāgiyā ei ghara bandhila anale puriya gelā: “I constructed my home to live very peacefully and comfortably. All of a sudden, there was set fire, and everything vanquished.” Just like in America you have got experience that Mr. Kennedy, he became president after long struggle. He had very nice wife, children, honor, prestige, everything. And somebody was saying, telling me yesterday, that people took him as very happy man. Within a second, all finished. He was driving, he was in procession, people were honoring him, and within a second—finished.

So everyone is trying to be very happy, comfortable, but it is being finished within a second. Is it not a fact? Huh? Is there any disagreement on this point? That is the problem. Everyone is trying to solve this problem in his own way. They are manufacturing different ways only, but the problem is not solved. The problem is there.

Here [there] in America, whenever I meet some gentleman in the street and he understands that I am coming from India, he says, “Oh, India is very poverty-stricken.” You see? So… As if there is no problem in America. There is one problem: food scarcity. But I tell him that “You have got also many problems. You are not problem-free.”

So there is… Suppose you have got some pain here. Sometimes we think that “If pain would have been here, then it would have been nice. Here it is very painful.” So pain, here or there, it is pain. You see? So either you have got problem of food grains or problem of hippies, but the problem is there. A different feature only.

Therefore one should be very much careful to know how to solve the problem. Actually, we are trying. We are trying to advance in education, in scientific knowledge. In so many things we are trying. The material nature is offering problems after problems. That is the nature’s business. You solve one problem, and she’ll present another problem. First of all, one…, somebody thought, “If there is aeroplane, then it will be very nice to travel in the space.”

But now the problem is that by aeroplane, if there is enmity, another country can face my country without any fight. So another problem. [laughs] Now they have to go underground. I was reading in the World Almanac that next hundred years people will live underground. You have read that? That World Almanac?

Śivānanda:
This is taking place in Montreal.

Prabhupāda:
Huh?

Śivānanda:
This is taking place in Montreal.

Prabhupāda:
Just see. They will come on the surface just to breathe little freely. Otherwise, they will have to live within underground. So another problem is coming. [chuckles] Intelligent persons should think of how this ultimate problem can be solved.

So what will be the answer? How ultimate problem can be solved? The problem is there, you agree, everyone? Or you have disagreement, there is no problem. You think there is no problem? Eh? Problem there is, you think? So how to solve it? They have tried their utmost. It is not solved. Then what is the solution? That solution is there in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Seventh Chapter. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Is there? No Bhagavad-gītā here?

Devotee (1):
I have one in my case.

Prabhupāda:
Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give me my spectacle. Behind that, there is small book. Just up. Yes. Give me that.

Alfred:
May I take some pictures tonight?

Prabhupāda:
Just open… Hayagrīva, you can come here. Sit down here. Seventh Chapter, fourteenth verse.

Hayagrīva:
[reading] “This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material…”

Prabhupāda:
Fourteen? That is fourteen?

Hayagrīva:
7.14?

Prabhupāda:
Seventh Chapter, fourteenth verse.

Hayagrīva:
Fourteenth verse. “This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.”

Prabhupāda:
That is the only solution. There is no other solution. You can attempt your best, but you’ll not be successful to solve the problems unless you surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the statement of the Lord. We may not believe it, as we don’t believe. Therefore there are different types of men. They are, in the next verse, it is said,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
[Bg. 7.15]

“There are a class of men, they are described as miscreants.” So those who do not surrender to God, they are miscreants. Duṣkṛtina. Kṛtina means actually pious activities, meritorious activities, deserve reward. But the same merit is being applied for sinful activities. That kind of person who utilizes his merit for sinful activities, they are called miscreants.

So Kṛṣṇa says that “Those who do not surrender unto Me, they are miscreants.” Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍhāḥ means ass.

Guest:
Ass?

Prabhupāda:
Yes. Just like an ass. It is loaded heavily by the washerman, but he does not know for whom he is accepting the heavy load. I gave this example to some gentleman in Montreal. I said, “Sir, you are working so hard. Can you explain why you are working so hard?” He could not answer. He could not explain. But he was working very hard, just like ass.

So if he cannot know what is the purpose of his life… You see? Actually, everyone in the material world, they’re working very hard, but they do not know what is the objective. You ask anybody what is the objective, he cannot explain. Therefore they are called asses, mūḍhāḥ, because the ass works hard but he does not know for whom he is working. He is working for the washerman, and he’s simply eating a morsel of grass. That he can eat anywhere, a grass. But he thinks that “I am obliged to this washerman because he is giving me grass.” Just like here also, people are working very hard, and the employer is giving a bunch of grass, a little salary. [laughter] But he thinks that “I am obliged to this employer.” But the grass, the salary, food, that he can get anywhere.

So this kind of ignorance is there all over the world. There is no intelligent class of men who can understand “Why I am working so hard?” If by working so hard… If you cannot solve the problems, then why you are working so hard? Just like there is so many scientific researches. What is the aim? The aim is… They do not know the aim. They do not know. Some scientists said, “We are trying to make living condition more comfortable.”

That means at the present moment it is not comfortable. But after so much scientific advancement, it is not comfortable. Then is there guarantee that in future, more scientific advancement, it will be comfortable? Because the problems are there already. Whatever you do… You make more scientific advancement, but the same problems which you are trying to solve, they’ll be there. You cannot solve that.

Then what is the meaning of your scientific research? Just like at the present moment by aeroplane movement, you can travel in the sky. But that aeroplane is the cause of so much anxiety. [laughs] Atom bomb. You see? So by scientific research you have manufactured so many things for temporary comforts, but at the same time you have manufactured so many things for discomfort. The balance is zero.

So we have to see… An intelligent man should see what is the aim. Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-
duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
[Bg. 13.9]

Actually, if we want to solve the problems, we should learn what is the problem. The problem is we do not want to die. Is there any man in the world who wants to die? Nobody wants to die. But the problem is we must die. You may be very rich or very poor, everyone must die. So this is the problem.

Similarly, janma. Nobody wants to take birth. Nobody… Otherwise why people are trying to check overpopulation by using contraceptive method? Because they do not want to give birth to any more children. So the problem of birth is there, the problem of death is there, the problem of old age, they are trying to solve. And the problem of disease, so many hospitals, so many laboratories. So these are the problems.

These problems cannot be solved by your scientific method. You may get temporary relief. Just like you have got headache and you take some Aspirin tablet. Does it mean that you’ll not have any more headache? The headache is there.

So there is no permanent solution. But there is permanent solution. That solution is there, that if you surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, or God, that is the only solution. Permanent solution.

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti kaunteya
[Bg. 4.9]

Kṛṣṇa says, “If anyone understands My transcendental position,” janma karma me divyam, “and My transcendental activities, if anyone perfectly understands…” What is that understanding? That understanding is that Kṛṣṇa appears exactly like us, but we should not think that He is like us. He appears to take birth like us, but actually He doesn’t take birth.

Just like, like sun. The sun is always there. In the morning we think sun is taking birth. No. Sun is always in the sky, but according to my position I see it is rising. It is rising on the eastern horizon, and in the evening sun is setting. Actually, sun is not rising or setting. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there.

Actually, we also, we living entities… We are always there. Simply I am changing body. This I explained. I am changing body. I am there. The body is changing. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa does not change His body, but He appears to change. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]: “Because I appear like a human being, the rascals consider Me just like a human being.” [guests entering room] Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest:
Good evening.

Prabhupāda:
Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much.

Guest:
I have brought you flowers. [laughter]

Prabhupāda:
That’s nice. So who are you? You look like…

Guest:
I am a reporter.

Prabhupāda:
Reporter? So you are… How many reporters you are?

Guest:
Three. We are three.

Prabhupāda:
Three? Come on. So be sitting. Give him sitting arrangement. All right, so you can sit down on the floor.

Guest:
We have visited from Stockholm.

Prabhupāda:
Stockholm? Sweden?

Guest:
Yes. We know there is a big center in L.A.

Prabhupāda:
That is our headquarter. Western hemisphere.