Chapter One

August 7th, 1976

The Air France flight brought us into Teheran airport at 7:30 p.m. Śrīla Prabhupāda’s GBC for the Middle East, Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu, and Mr. Patel, a Gujarati Vaiṣṇava with the Vallabhācārya sect, were already inside the airport waiting to greet Śrīla Prabhupāda. In order to expedite our entrance into the country Atreya Ṛṣi asked us to sit to one side while he and his companion approached the immigration counter with our passports. Within a few minutes entry was granted, and we were on our way out the door, all without our having any personal contact with the officials—a pleasant contrast to some of our previous immigration experiences. It made me think that, as Lord Kṛṣṇa’s most confidential emissary, this should be the minimum standard for Śrīla Prabhupāda’s visits to every country. Harikeśa Mahārāja and Pradyumna brought the luggage through customs, again without difficulty. 

Outside the airport Dayānanda prabhu was waiting for us in his car. He struck quite a different profile from when we last saw him in Delhi in March. Now he wears a suit and has grown out his hair. As he drove us to Atreya Ṛṣi’s house he informed us that he has a job working as a computer programmer for a local firm. Atreya Ṛṣi works for Arthur Young, one of the top accountancy firms in the world. He is a junior partner, and the managing director of their Iranian operations. Prabhupāda was pleased to hear about their work. He asked Dayānanda whether computers could think.  

Atreya Ṛṣi got himself entangled in a convoluted explanation as to why they couldn’t, when Dayānanda cut in. “Actually Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are all just nonsense,” he said drolly, grinning from ear to ear. 

Śrīla Prabhupāda laughed and changed the subject. 

The other members of this small Middle Eastern yātrā welcomed Śrīla Prabhupāda at Atreya Ṛṣi’s house: Parivrājakācārya Swami, Atreya Ṛṣi’s wife Vidhi Bhakti and their child, Dayānanda’s wife Nandarāṇī and their two daughters, Navayauvana dāsa and his wife Mañjarī dāsī and their child and Jñānagamya dāsa. They are all Americans, and along with them were two Iranians, Mustafa and Hussein, both in their mid-twenties. Sitting out on the wide veranda on the second floor overlooking the back garden, Śrīla Prabhupāda requested Nandarāṇī to cook for him. She had already made chaturi and paratha so Prabhupāda asked for khichari, okra and dry-roasted puffed rice with cucumber. With obvious pleasure Śrīla Prabhupāda told Harikeśa that she had been cooking for him in Māyāpur.  

Sipping a drink made from local melons, Prabhupāda relaxed for a while as we unpacked. He chatted with the devotees about the availability of fruits and the local climate. Atreya Ṛṣi said the climate was similar to that of Vṛndāvana, but Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja quickly added that Teheran is about six thousand feet above sea level and backed up against mountains, so although it gets hot in the summer, it snows in the winter months.  

Still Prabhupāda appreciated their living facility. The house is a large and expensive rented villa made of stone, with a big back garden kept private by a high wall and a large steel gate. Costing $1,200 per month, it is situated in the northwest of the city in Saltanatabad, a wealthy area where mainly western-educated people and foreigners live. We are staying on the upper floor which has broad verandas running along the front and back sides, with four bedrooms and two bathrooms sandwiched between. Prabhupāda has the end bedroom and the larger bathroom for his exclusive use. He will use one of the middle rooms for darśana and meetings. I am staying in the room next to this, and Harikeśa and Pradyumna are in the fourth room. The pleasant aspect of the veranda is enhanced by an array of greenery hanging over the rail from a tree growing at the end of the building. Śrīla Prabhupāda seems at ease in these spacious surroundings. Atreya Ṛṣi explained that although his company rents it, because of escalating costs they recently decided to buy a place. Atreya also has plans to buy our own ISKCON facility and perhaps a place for a temple as well. 

Glancing affectionately at Dayānanda Prabhupāda told him, “So I am also very happy Dayānanda you are here, and you can have more facilities. You family men, you require some money also. So your present situation is very nice?” 

“Yes.” 

“What they are paying you?” 

“I bring home about one thousand dollars per month after deducting taxes.” 

“It is better than USA. You were getting six hundred there?” 

“Yes.” 

Thinking back to earlier days in Los Angeles when Dayānanda was one of the few devotees working at an outside job, Prabhupāda reinforced his endorsement of this. “So you are getting more? Why Gargamuni advised you to give up? I chastised him, ‘Why you have given him such advice? He’s a gṛhastha, he must have some money. He has to take care of the children.’ Anyway, you have got better job now and better service also. Kṛṣṇa has awarded you for your service. Stick to it. If you like to serve here, you can be permanently settled. Now, what is their rules?” 

Dayānanda explained that visas are easily given to foreigners, especially Americans. 

“That’s very good opportunity,” Prabhupāda said. “Bring more Americans and start this movement nicely. Not necessarily that we have to establish a temple. We want to preach our philosophy. That is most important. Bhāgavata-mārga. There are two ways, bhāgavata-mārga and pāñcarātrikī. The bhāgavata-mārga is more important than pāñcarātrikī. Pāñcarātrikī is Deity worship.”  

Śrīla Prabhupāda nibbled on various pieces of local fruit, appreciating their flavors. Telling Atreya Ṛṣi to distribute some to all the devotees he asked if the people in Iran ate much meat. Dayānanda told him that according to an old epic poem, people were formerly all vegetarians. Atreya Ṛṣi added however, that due to western influence, they are now eating beef.  

Prabhupāda told us about the Vedic roots of Iran. “It is Āryan culture. Iranian means Āryan. It is an apa-brahmsa of Ārya, Iraya. And they are called Parsis. Parsis still, those who fled away from this place, they are just like Hindus. They have got sacred thread in India.”  

Parivrājakācārya agreed and said that their language was very similar to Sanskrit, adding that the Caspian sea, which Śrīla Prabhupāda mentions in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the place where Kaśyapa Muni had his āśrama, is only ninety kilometers from Teheran. Prabhupāda nodded and said, “Formerly, from Kashmir to central Asia, it was known as bhū-svarga, especially Kashmir; bhū-svarga, heaven on the earthly planet.” 

Looking toward his two local followers Prabhupāda asked if they had an inquiry. Atreya Ṛṣi explained that Mustafa and Hussein are both following the regulative principles and chanting regularly.  

Hussein has been chanting sixteen rounds for several months and, in fact, was a vegetarian and already chanting the names of God he found in the Koran before meeting the devotees, so he quickly became attracted to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s mission. Speaking through Atreya Ṛṣi, he expressed his desire to translate Prabhupāda’s Bhagavad-gītā As It Is into Parsi. Śrīla Prabhupāda encouraged him, giving him the simple advice that he should not change anything. 

Mustafa was working in the Raw Vegetarian Society’s restaurant before becoming attracted to the devotees. He has only recently begun chanting, and through Navayauvana he posed a practical question about spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness in Iran. He felt a difficulty naturally arose because of the external appearance of devotees, which to Islamic Iran was very foreign.  

Prabhupāda got to the heart of things right away. “The first thing is, that what do you mean by Kṛṣṇa. That is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa means God. So if you have no objection to chant the name of God, then there is no difference of opinions. Now first of all, I may ask you, ‘What do you mean by God?’ You are chanting the holy name of God, and people may ask you, ‘What do you mean by God?’ ” 

Mustafa attempted an answer. “I cannot explain, because now . . .” 

But Prabhupāda cut in. “But that you must explain. If you are chanting the name of God, then you must know what do you mean by God.” 

“When I feel, I will get spiritual, my feeling . . .” 

“Spiritual?” Prabhupāda asked him. “What do you mean by spiritual?” 

Mustafa hadn’t much of a clear idea. “It means I put everything that is bad and dirty inside and I make it out, all of them. When I do wrong, for example. When I do lie, when I do something, when I see wrong.” 

Prabhupāda challenged him. “Wrong; one thing is wrong in my country, and that is right in your country. Just like animal slaughter is wrong according to our Vedic civilization. Unnecessary animal slaughter is forbidden. But in your country or in other Western countries, they kill so many animals. So what is wrong, what is right? Who will decide?” 

“That’s the reason I don’t kill animals and I don’t eat meat. For three years now.” 

Prabhupāda encouraged him. “That’s very good, very good idea.” Yet he went on with his point. “When we want God, we must try to understand what is God. What do you mean by God? The God definition is given in the dictionary—what is that? ‘Supreme being, supreme controller.’ So how do you understand that supreme controller? What do you mean by supreme controller? In this way we should try to understand what is the idea carried by the word God. We have got, in our Vedic language, we have got definition of God, that aiśvaryasya samagrasyavīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ/ jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47]. ‘God’ means He must possess all the wealth. Just like in Persia you have got so many wealthy persons, but nobody can claim, even the Shah cannot claim, that he possesses all the wealth; that is not possible. So this is one of the items, that God is the richest, or He possesses all the wealth. Similarly, He possesses all the strength, He possesses all the beauty, He possesses all knowledge, and He is the renouncer also, the most exalted renouncer. Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities: ‘Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity.’ He doesn’t interfere. ‘All right, you go on.’ And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God’s property. He doesn’t interfere. ‘All right, enjoy.’ This is renouncement—His property, He does not come to interfere.  

“God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows; but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening, although I am claiming I am my body. But God knows every particular, anvayād itarataś. How the stone is made, He knows; how this flower is colored, He knows. That is called wise, wisdom. Vedāhaṁ sarvan etani. He knows. That is God. He is the possessor of all wealth, all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all influence. In this way you have to understand God.”  

To more clearly present his questions Mustafa began speaking in Parsi with Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu translating. “His question is, ‘How can I have more faith in God?’ ” 

“The more you know about these things,” Prabhupāda told him.  

Mustafa’s response indicated that he understood that one must inquire. Prabhupāda was pleased. “Yes. Oh, very good. Very good. There is a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta—siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa iha haite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa: We have got limited knowledge, we cannot understand full what is God, but still we must try to understand what is God. This is the general definition of God. Suppose you take one item: God is rich, richest. Try to understand how He is richest, what is the topmost idea of all richness. Whether God possesses that richness. He possesses, but we do not understand. In this way we have to study, and all the saintly person have studied Kṛṣṇa, about these six things. They have analyzed the characters and symptoms and they have found īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Not blindly, but studying thoroughly about these qualities of God, they have decided īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. So you have to study God. Not that we accept God anybody and anything, no. Don’t be lazy to understand God. The more you understand, the more you become devotee.” 

Mustafa said he was anxious to become a good devotee. 

Prabhupāda nodded in satisfaction. “Yes, you can become, everyone can become. The more the dirty things within the heart is cleansed, more one becomes a devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ, you have to make zero all dirty desires. Then it is pure. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam/ ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamās. That is bhaktir uttama.” 

He ended the discussion by stressing the difference between mere belief and actual knowledge. “The more you become eager to know God, God will reveal Himself. From our side, we should not be stereotyped. People in different sects of religion, they say, ‘We believe.’ But they do not want to go further than they believe. That is very difficult. You must be dynamic and progressive, then you will have. I have talked with many sects, especially Christian priests. They will say ‘We believe’, no more further than that. So knowledge is not like that. Knowledge must be progressive. ‘We believe there is no soul of the animal’—bas, fixed up. You believe like a rascal, so I shall remain rascal. What is this? We should be progressive, that is wanted. Of course, in the lower stage one may have a type of belief, but if you want more clearly, you must be progressive. According to vedānta system, the life, human life, is only for inquiring about Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.” 

It was getting late, about 11 P.M. Leaning back in his chair Prabhupāda tipped his head. “We shall talk again.”  

Before sending everyone to take rest he handed out pieces of pera to one and all. Mañjarī’s baby boy Nāmācārya, who was born here in Teheran only three months ago, had been sleeping most of the darśana, but he had just woken up. Prabhupāda offered the sweet, but the boy didn’t respond. “Oh, too young,” Prabhupāda said, withdrawing it. Then, seeing Mañjarī become slightly crestfallen that her son would not receive the transcendental mahā-mahā-prasādam, he made her smile again by handing it to her, telling her to keep it for later. 

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda chose to rest on the balcony rather than his room because of the heat. From 11:15 P.M. until 12:10 A.M. he took his massage, and then he rose around 2:00 A.M. Then, between 3:00 A.M. and 4:30 A.M. he summoned me with his buzzer five times because his dictaphone kept malfunctioning. There was some connection which kept shaking loose and I had to repeatedly jump in and out of my sleeping bag, running to and fro between the rooms to fix the problem.  

I was just nodding off to sleep when I heard the bell a sixth time. Again I leapt out of my nylon sack, shaking off the stupor of impending sleep, ran the short distance down the veranda, opened the door to Prabhupāda’s room and offered my obeisances. I looked up to see Śrīla Prabhupāda working steadily at his desk, the dictaphone clicking away in his hand, functioning as it should. He peered at me inquisitively over the top of his reading glasses, as if I were interrupting his thoughts.  

“I thought I heard the bell ring,” I said sheepishly.  

Without a word or change in expression Prabhupāda simply shook his head, looked back down at his books and went on with his translations. I returned to my sleeping bag, realizing that the sixth ring had been naught but a dream.  

August 8th, 1976

Prabhupāda went for his walk as usual at 6:00 A.M. but allowed me to stay back and catch up on my rest. The devotees took him out to nearby Niavaran park, situated next to a palace of the same name, which the Shah of Iran uses for receiving visiting diplomats and heads of state. It is the same place he walked last year when he visited with his servant Śruta Kīrti and secretary Paramahaṁsa Swami.  

Before they left I handed the recorder over to Pradyumna with instructions how to use it so that no valuable comments Prabhupāda might make would be lost. Śrīla Prabhupāda didn’t disappoint the devotees, who were all eager to hear whatever he had to say. He talked freely, pointing out the foolishness of trying to maintain the body as the goal of life, and the futility of materialistic family life. He explained how modern religions are meant for the envious. “That is material world, envious. That is a disease, to become envious. The spiritual world means no enviousness. That is spiritual world. And material world, there is only envious. I’m envious of you, you are envious of me. It is a society of enviousness. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo ‘tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Paramo nirmatsara. One who is not at all envious, for him, bhāgavata-dharma. This other dharma is for the envious person.” 

Navayauvana expressed a little surprise that dharma could be for the envious. 

“Yes, so-called dharmas,” Śrīla Prabhupāda told him. “Just like we have created so many dharma: Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called, they are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ. Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo, that is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God? If you learn, ‘I believe this, I believe that; this is our ritualistic ceremony,’ these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That’s all. They will say, ‘We believe in this way. We believe in that way.’ So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptir. Other religious sects, they say this is Hindu belief. When Kṛṣṇa says dehino ‘smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?” 

“No, it’s just like you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda,” Dayānanda said. “It’s given by the Supreme Lord.”  

But Prabhupāda was more down to earth. “Apart from Supreme Lord, it is a law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni, the law, nature’s law is acting like that. How you can avoid the laws of nature? If some young man says, ‘No, no, I’ll not become old man,’ will the law of nature excuse him because you do not like? You have to become old man. The law of nature is working so strongly, but this rascal is proud of his own belief. This is foolishness, mūḍha.”  

The devotees were fully enlivened from their close and personal association with His Divine Grace. Preaching in such an isolated country with little contact with the rest of the worldwide devotional community has its compensations. In such circumstances, when Prabhupāda comes, everyone gets the opportunity to speak with him and share some informal and intimate moments.  

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda returned by 7:30 a.m. and entered the ground floor of the house for a short morning program. The downstairs consists mainly of a hallway, guest bedroom, pantry, kitchen, a large living room with an adjoining dining area. The devotees have put Śrīla Prabhupāda’s vyāsāsana, which is usually kept upstairs, in the dining room and a simple Pañcatattva altar faces it from the opposite end of the living room. The yātrā here may be small but is certainly not poor. The floor coverings in the living room are Persian Kashan carpets of navy blue and red floral design worth about $12,000 each.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda mounted his vyāsāsana—a converted armchair covered with an orange brocade sari—to receive guru-pūjā from the enthusiastic devotees. Then at the end of the kīrtana we all sat on the opulent rugs eager to hear his lecture.  

It turned out to be very short, hardly one minute, on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.22.19. Prabhupāda had Pradyumna prabhu read out the Sanskrit verse, the word-for-word transliterations, and translation. It described Kardama Muni’s desire to marry, have a child, and then retire from family life. Pradyumna read the purport, which was exceptionally interesting: “According to Vedic principles, the first part of life should be utilized in brahmacārya for the development of character and spiritual qualities. In the next part of life, one may accept a wife and beget children, but one should not beget children like cats and dogs. 

“Kardama Muni desired to beget a child who would be a ray of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One should beget a child who can perform the duties of Viṣṇu, otherwise there is no need to produce children. There are two kinds of children born of good fathers: one is educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that he can be delivered from the clutches of māyā in that very life, and the other is a ray of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and teaches the world the ultimate goal of life. As will be described in later chapters, Kardama Muni begot such a child—Kapila, the incarnation of the Personality of Godhead who enunciated the philosophy of Sāṅkhya. Great householders pray to God to send His representative so that there may be an auspicious movement in human society. This is one reason to beget a child. Another reason is that a highly enlightened parent can train a child in Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the child will not have to come back again to this miserable world. . . .   

“In the same order as Kardama Muni, about 100 years ago, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda also wanted to beget a child who could preach the philosophy and teachings of Lord Caitanya to the fullest extent. By his prayers to the Lord he had as his child Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, who at the present moment is preaching the philosophy of Lord Caitanya throughout the entire world through his bona fide disciples.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s few added comments were highly relevant to this small community of householders. “So householder life is not condemned; it is required. If there is no householders, then wherefrom the saintly persons will come? They will not drop from the sky. So everything is required. In our society, we have got householders, we have got brahmacārīs, we have got sannyāsīs. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a very scientific movement for the total benefit of human society. If it is properly carried out, then everyone will be satisfied and happy and go back home, back to Godhead. Thank you.” 

* * * 

One of the first things I did on our arrival was ask Atreya to telex Los Angeles from his office with a request for Pālikā dāsī to rejoin our party in India next week.  

After Śrīla Prabhupāda’s complaints on the airplane leaving France I can see no alternative. Harikeśa Mahārāja has conceded that his cooking is not satisfying His Divine Grace and while we are here Nandarāṇī will do it.  

* * * 

Prabhupāda spent a quiet day following his usual routine, while Atreya Ṛṣi and Dayānanda prabhus went off to work in the afternoon. Despite the high altitude causing swelling in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s legs and hands again from his uremia, he has decided to stay in Iran until the 13th of the month because the climate here is very nice—sunny and hot, around ninety degrees. Tehran’s air, however, is heavily polluted. This afternoon I went out onto the roof to chant my rounds. On one side the mountains tower in the background, and from where we are one should be able to enjoy a panorama of the entire city. However, all I could see were the misty forms of buildings shrouded in a thick, brownish-yellow smog. Teheran must be one of the most polluted cities in the world.  

* * * 

The devotees have been preaching here since mid-1973 when Atreya Ṛṣi, who is Iranian, and Navayauvana prabhus came here to start a center. Śrīla Prabhupāda originally advised them to preach to the upper class sections of society. Now that instruction is being wonderfully fulfilled by Parivrājakācārya Swami (who at the moment is suffering from a burst ear drum and is quite sick). A former haṭha-yoga teacher, he developed a good connection to the royal family by teaching yoga to one of their distant relatives who was recovering from a drug dependency. He then began teaching the Shah’s nephew’s wife, Shanaz. This woman is close to the Shah’s wife, and through her he also came to know the queen. In fact, he is the first Westerner ever to enter the inner chambers of the royal palace. Now he preaches to the royal family’s friends and relatives, using his haṭha-yoga expertise to attract them to the process of bhakti-yoga. Prabhupāda is extremely pleased with his efforts. 

* * * 

In the evening, before any visitors arrived, Prabhupāda sat in his room with Atreya Ṛṣi, Harikeśa, Parivrājakācārya, Jñānagamya and myself. He was again pointing out the defects of the so-called Mars landing, declaring that in the śāstras it states very clearly that every planet is full of life. “Jana-kīrṇa, this very word is used, jana-kīrṇa, congested with life. Everything is described there. There is milk ocean, there is this ocean, that ocean, varieties of. So if we have to take these rascals’ version, they’re simply rogues, then the whole śāstra becomes false. And they will advertise that these descriptions in the śāstras, they are all mythology. Of course, this kind of bluffing cannot go because suppose this Mars expedition becomes a failure, like that, the same . . . It will be failure. So next time, if they propose [to go there], I think people will be hesitant to allow them to. Simply bringing people rocks and sands, without any utility, after spending so much money. How long they can repeat this, ‘Yes, we went to this planet, rocks. We went to this—rocks.” 

He was interested to hear that Jñānagamya prabhu had some information not found in the newspapers.  

“Yes, I was working for USIS, U.S. Information Service,” Jñānagamya told him. “And I had a commission to paint a large picture of this Mars landing ship, and they had information coming back that they were finding a long blockhouse with a big crater in the center, like a building that had been bombed. Fourteen kilometer crater. They had a picture like that. It appeared to be a building. So they are all cheaters. I used to live in Florida where they send up these [spaceships] . . . they are all drunkards. They drink alcohol. Very unserious.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda smiled and used what was to me a quaint comparison to show why we should not accept the scientist’s propaganda. “They say Howrah station is closed,” he said with a grin. “No sane man will believe that, that Howrah station is closed.” 

And when Jñānagamya suggested that they didn’t want to admit there might be life forms higher than themselves, including God, Prabhupāda continued to smile. “And all the higher lives are in Europe and America. Especially in America, eh? That is their mania. They like it that there may not be any higher life. That is their preconception.” 

As we talked the sound of a lamb’s bleating attracted his attention. It seemed an unusual thing to hear in the middle of the city. Parivrājakācārya explained the animals were kept for sacrifice. “The Koran says that you should sacrifice the animal at home with his head pointing toward Mecca. You let the blood of the animal flow towards Mecca, and then you can eat an animal. So they keep many sheep here just for that purpose.” 

Prabhupāda saw something positive even in that. “Oh. So at least they do not recommend to purchase from the slaughterhouse. That is also good.” 

Jñānagamya pointed out that they also have slaughterhouses. But Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja said that the Koran nevertheless restricts meat-eating. “This is what we explain,” he told Śrīla Prabhupāda. “We say, if it is good, then why is it restricted?” 

Prabhupāda liked the logic. “That’s a good explanation. What do they say?” 

“They say, well, Mohammed did it,” Mahārāja said. 

“That’s all right,” Śrīla Prabhupāda replied. “But this is restriction.” 

By this time visitors began to arrive and Prabhupāda decided to move out to the veranda where there was more room and a soft breeze. In the pleasant evening atmosphere he was introduced to his guests. Atreya Ṛṣi and Dayānanda had invited a work colleague, Mr. Hamidi, and a variety of other visitors: Peter, a young Englishman who purports to be a Buddhist but attends our meetings every Friday; Mr. Siva from Malaysia; Dr. Rulf, an economist from Holland; Reza, a frequent Iranian visitor who is chanting; and a few Indian guests.  

Atreya Ṛṣi presented Mr. Hamidi as a person who was very much interested in both Indian and Iranian spiritual life, and in culture. Śrīla Prabhupāda picked that as his theme for discussion, asking Mr. Hamidi what he meant by spiritual culture. Then he explained that, as gold is neither Iranian nor Indian, similarly, spiritual culture is one.   

Mr. Hamidi expressed his agreement, “Of course, I believe that they’re all the same, but . . .” 

“No, same,” Prabhupāda said, to show he appreciated Mr. Hamidi’s general understanding. “But you must explain at least. I want to know how far you have understood spiritual culture as it is. That is my question.” 

“Well, of course, it is very difficult to differentiate,” Mr. Hamidi hesitated. 

“Yes, it is difficult,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said, having expected such a reply. “Practically you do not know what is spiritual culture. That is a fact. So first of all, you must try to understand what is spiritual culture.”  

He explained that there are two things within our experience—matter and spirit. Pointing out the uselessness of the body without the soul’s presence, Prabhupāda told him, “When we study that spirit soul, that is the beginning of spiritual culture. If you have no idea of what is that spirit, then there is no question of spiritual culture. With this body we cannot make any progress of spiritual culture. That is not possible.” 

He had Pradyumna read out verse eighteen from the second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, repeating the translation for emphasis. “Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction.” He explained that eternity was the proof of the soul; we remain the same person despite the changes our body experiences. “This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities.  Eating, sleeping, and some sense gratification, sex. These are bodily necessities. But when you understand what is spirit, then we must try to find out what the spiritual necessity is. That is spiritual culture. You cannot go on with the bodily culture as spiritual culture. That is a mistake.” 

Prabhupāda drew the obvious conclusion that spiritual culture was one. There was no question of Indian or Iranian. He added that bodily culture was also one. “It does not mean that only Indians eat and the Iranians do not eat. The Iranians also eat, because they are bodily necessities. Similarly, spiritual culture also, there is some necessities which is equally needed by the Iranians, by Americans, by Indians.” 

When Prabhupāda called for questions, Peter, the young Englishman, wanted to know, “Is the soul dependent upon the body for its existence?”  

“Yes,” Śrīla Prabhupāda told him. “At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition; because he’s thinking that he is this body.  

“They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha means ass. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he’s dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load? Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he’ll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence.  

“Mūḍha. We are thinking that without this body we cannot live. No. That is not the fact. We can live independently of this body. But our present position, because we have no spiritual culture, we are thinking that we are dependent on this body. Actually, we are not dependent. That will be revealed the more you advance in spiritual culture.” 

Calling on Pradyumna, Prabhupāda again had him quote from Bhagavad-gītā: “One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.”  

“So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body,” Prabhupāda told Peter. “This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body.” 

Prabhupāda repeatedly asked for more questions from his audience, but little was forthcoming. Only Peter seemed inquisitive enough to delve into the philosophy.  

As Prabhupāda sat chanting before his passive onlookers more guests arrived, amongst them Terry Graham, a young journalist who had come to see Śrīla Prabhupāda on a previous visit. Prabhupāda recognized him and asked if he had any questions. Terry responded with a rather convoluted observation cum inquiry: “I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. The question is, ‘What is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?’ ” 

Despite Terry’s verbosity Śrīla Prabhupāda had a ready and practical answer. “In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, ‘This way will be beneficial,’ but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible. 

“We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant, to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go into the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature—the severe cold, scorching heat—how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, but still there will be some trouble—sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don’t feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That’s not possible.”  

Returning to his previous theme he gave the solution. “If you come to the spiritual platform independent of this material body, then there will be everything solved. They can waste their time for making an adjustment, but that is not possible. If you actually want freedom from material disturbances, you have to come to the spiritual platform and cultivate spiritual knowledge and be fixed up. Then your life is successful.” 

As far as there being a correlation of disturbance to the particular time we live in, Prabhupāda agreed there was, but he added that the underlying nature of material life remained the same. “It is more or less. Sometimes you have got 110° temperature, and sometimes you have got 70° temperature. But the disturbance is there. Either 110° or 70° or 30°, you’ll have to feel the disturbance. You cannot stop it. So either you take the cause this age, or this country, or this atmosphere, we can say so, but it will continue. You can think that if it would have been 100°, it would have been very nice. But that’s not the fact. Either 110° or 100°, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he’s intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. One has to understand this fundamentally: that so long I’ll get this material body, I’ll have to suffer. It may be differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted, that is intelligence.” 

Quoting Bhagavad-gītā 8.15, he went on to give a vivid example of how we try to avoid misery by making adjustments, without realizing there is misery all around. “Just like in this country, Iran, now the Iranians are trying to become as opulent as the Americans. They are trying to build up similar cities and industries. But do you think they will be happy then? No. Are the Americans happy by having big, big cities? No, that is not possible. Now they are trying to imitate, but that is a false attempt. They can see that Americans have got big, big cities, they have big, big organizations, but are they happy actually or not? From practical example. Then why you are attempting to imitate them? That intelligence is lacking. How they will be happy, they do not know. They are trying to imitate somebody else. He is already on the standard, so-called, but still they are not happy. The Communists, they’re trying for the last fifty years to become happy, but are they happy actually? No. The Russians and the Chinese, they are now differing, ‘No, this is not the standard. This is standard.’ So the same thing is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām, it is like chewing the chewed, that’s all. Somebody has chewed the sugar cane and it’s thrown away. Another man comes, ‘Let me taste it.’ And what you’ll taste? It is already finished. So all these ‘isms,’ they are all finished. All the scientific discoveries, they are all finished. And where is happiness? This is not the way. 

“You have to attempt in such a way that after giving up this body, you go back home, back to Godhead, never come back again here. This is the way. Otherwise, there is no happiness. You go on struggling, that is your choice. Make new attempts. Just like this moon excursion. Ten years ago in one small book, Easy Journey to Other Planets, we predicted that this moon-going attempt is childish and waste of time. We are not expert scientist, but from the śāstra we can understand. Now such a brilliant planet, pleasing, and they have discovered there rocks and sand. Just see their intelligence. Do you think rocks and sand are so brilliant? What do you think? This bluff is going on. People are feeling under the moonshine is so pleasing—and it is full of rocks and sand! We have to accept that. Rocks and sand, throughout the whole day by scorching heat, they also become heated. So if it is rocks and sand, so whole day it was heated by the sunshine, how it is pleasing?” 

Prabhupāda elucidated a while longer on the need to give up all designations, and finally, after a full night’s preaching, his guests left and he relaxed on the veranda. Even after all the visitors had gone he continued to preach to his disciples, perpetually enthusiastic to talk of Lord Kṛṣṇa and the sublime philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. 

He decided to take rest inside rather than on the open veranda, saying that it was a little cool. Pradyumna pointed out that it was coming to pūrṇimā, the full moon. 

“Yes, moon is the cooling effect,” Prabhupāda said. And then with a grin, seizing on yet another opportunity to discredit the scientists, he added sarcastically, “Desert will make a cooling effect!” He made everyone laugh. “Just see. At least I shall not believe that this is desert and rock. I’m not so fool. The desert and rock is giving so nice brilliant shining, everyone is feeling comfortable. Just see. And we have to believe it.” 

The evening’s meeting had given him an appetite and he asked Atreya Ṛṣi if they had some puffed rice. As it turned out, they did, imported from India. So Prabhupāda asked that it be heated and mixed with a little ghee, black pepper and salt. 

Atreya Ṛṣi was inquisitive. “How do they make it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?” 

“Not difficult,” Prabhupāda said, repeating what he had told us in France. “The paddy, they are boiled, and then again baked in the sunshine. Again boil, then again baked in the sunshine. Then the skin is taken out by that dekhi, what is called? That rice . . .” 

“Thresher?” Pradyumna suggested. 

Prabhupāda nodded. “Dekhi, husking, the skin is taken away. Then mixed with salt and make it heated. Then when it is prepared, then they heat sand, and in that heated sand you put the rice and immediately puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff. Like that.” 

* * * 

When I set up Śrīla Prabhupāda’s bed, I noted a lot of mosquitoes. I asked Atreya Ṛṣi if he had a net, but instead he handed me a small electrical gadget, a metal heating element encased in plastic. It plugs in the wall socket and a cardboard tablet soaked in some kind of repellent is placed on the element. As it heats up, it gives off fumes to drive away the insects. It seemed simple and neat and Atreya Ṛṣi said it was very effective, so I decided to try it. 

 August 9th, 1976

In the morning Śrīla Prabhupāda walked in the park again. The park is basically a carefully sculptured hillside, attractively terraced and well maintained by what seems to be an overabundance of attendants. After being driven to the top of the hill Prabhupāda entered the deserted enclosure and gradually made his way down the winding pathways to the bottom where the car was waiting.  

About halfway down Prabhupāda sat for a while on a bench in a small arbour of shrubs and latticework, while we, his small following of disciples, sat around him on the ground. A few groundsmen looked on, somewhat bemused at the curious gathering of shaven-headed foreigners clad in dhotīs, their attention centred reverentially on an old Indian gentleman. 

Though not physically strong, Prabhupāda’s vigor for speaking kṛṣṇa-kathā has not diminished. He kept up a running discourse, observing that men in general, because of godlessness, have become dishonest. “He’s dishonest to himself even. Doesn’t take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness.” 

He asked Atreya Ṛṣi if there was much fighting between the Iranian people. 

“Not so much,” Atreya Ṛṣi told him. “They are not as peaceful as Indians; they are not as pious as Indians.” 

Accepting his judgement, Prabhupāda said, “They cannot be. In India still you’ll find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin. Still, they will take twice bath with the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry—that is India’s advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth, and the napkin is also dry. And he’ll become refreshed. And in his loṭā he’ll take some water of the Ganges and he’ll go home. In Vṛndāvana you’ll find many thousands in the morning, with loṭā they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, Yamunā.” 

Thinking of a recent newspaper article that criticized the mentality of pilgrims who go to bathe in the Yamunā even though the government has declared its waters polluted, he added, “Now they are polluting the Yamunā water, the government. In Vṛndāvana, government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, ‘These are new temples.’ Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth.” 

As we sat and talked in one of the alcoves a steady procession of cleaners came by, curious about their early morning visitors. Prabhupāda innocently asked if they wanted to clean where we were sitting.  

“No, they’re just looking,” I explained. “Probably the amount of cleaners that’s been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now.” 

Prabhupāda observed that men were creating bad situations by falsely claiming proprietorship over natural resources, although these things were made by God. 

Navayauvana said that the Shah had just recently stated that all the forests and natural resources were made by God and that no man could make these things. “But his conclusion was not correct,” he added. “He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn’t understand.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda has always supported the idea of a just monarchy as the best means of rule, and he approved the Shah saying such a thing, but with a strong proviso. “It belongs to God, this is accepted. And everyone is God’s son; therefore as the son can enjoy the father’s property. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father’s property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that’s all. Nobody’s unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that, ‘It is God’s property. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more.’ Like the birds and beasts—they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they’ll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry, they will go another tree. They never claim that, ‘This is my tree, this is my fruit.’ This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he’ll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.” 

“But they say that that’s intelligence,” I said. “To make preparation for the future.” 

“Yes, to steal God’s property is certainly intelligence,” Śrīla Prabhupāda replied sardonically. “Very good intelligence. They must suffer. For this intelligence they must be punished.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s statement that the son has the right to enjoy the father’s property made me think about an argument my mother had once used in an exchange of letters with me. Her outlook was that of a typical karmī: “Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it’s for us to divide up and enjoy between us. He has no connection with it now.” 

“Why? He has made and He has no connection?” Prabhupāda asked. “What is this rascal theory—He has made everything and He has no connection.”  

“No, He gives up the connection,” I said. 

“Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?” 

“They say that He’s made for our enjoyment and it’s for us to divide and enjoy.” 

“No,” Prabhupāda said emphatically. “Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business, that is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that, then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply; but don’t try to take more and stock, that is folly. You eat, you live very nicely—there is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you’ll be punished.” 

Once again he glorified the Indian heritage. “This is our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed; he doesn’t protest. Any Indian villager, he’ll say ‘God has given me this position, that’s all right.’ Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India this God consciousness has made them lethargic, they believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you’ll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won’t find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.” 

“They’re not interested in increasing the unnecessary items,” I said. 

Prabhupāda nodded. “That’s it. Why? If there is already sufficient supply of my necessities of life, why shall I waste my time? They knew how to utilize time.” 

Navayauvana joined in, extending my argument. “They say that God has no need to enjoy.” 

Prabhupāda’s reaction was as humorous as it was emphatic: “Beat him with shoes on his face! Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He’s your father’s servant, that He’s created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment, but I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that God cannot enjoy?” 

“Yes, He doesn’t need to enjoy,” Navayauvana replied. “They say because He’s not like human beings.” 

Again Prabhupāda gave an example from practical experience. “There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him that, ‘You are not like human being, you cannot enjoy’? This is all nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda put the dearth of knowledge of God down to misleadership in every major field of human endeavor—philosophy, science, politics, sociology. People were being led by rascals and fools who had no idea of the real welfare of society. As an example he pointed out that although there is a police department, all kinds of sinful activities are allowed to go on because no one knows what is sinful anymore. 

Dayānanda said that they judged everything on the basis of what they thought was good for humanity, and in essence that was whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people. 

Prabhupāda replied that was the mentality of a child. “It is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day, but the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seek his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian; let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to . . . My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, that, ‘Your duty is to take him by force to the school.’ Yes. My father, my mother would complain that ‘Your boy did not go to school.’  

“‘Oh, he did not go to school?’ And I was sure he was very affectionate. ‘Why?’  

“‘No, I shall go tomorrow.’  

“Then father, ‘All right, he will go tomorrow, that’s all right.’ But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical [experience]. My mother forced me. So I thought, ‘It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day.’ But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. Otherwise why the guardians are required? Why government is needed, why king is needed, why father is needed, why guru is needed? Just to guide. Therefore whatever you think whimsically it is pleasure, the guru, the father, the king, the government, they should guide: ‘No, it is not pleasure, it is ruining. You should take like this.’ If the guru and father and the government, they are themselves rascals and fools, how they will guide? And that is the position. General public, they require guidance, but the guides themselves are rascals and fools, cheaters, bluffers. Therefore the social condition is very bad.” 

Prabhupāda told us that the leaders were victims of bad upbringing. “They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on, paramparā. The paramparā is that God’s instructions should be distributed. But there are no followers of God’s instruction. Therefore the fool’s, rascal’s paramparā is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue, the grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The paramparā is rogue. And if they follow God’s paramparā, then everything is all right.  

“The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn’t matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God. So if you sincerely want to understand God and follow His instruction, any religion, it doesn’t matter, you become a good man. Comparatively, according to the time, circumstances may be . . . just like, who told me? You told me that they cut throat of the lamb. So suppose that the blood goes to the Mecca side, still there is sense of God, a sense of God. Similarly, if they follow strictly the words of God, so everything is all right.” 

Prabhupāda’s willingness to thoroughly discuss the issues, and his enjoyment of the park, made him tarry a while longer than was his normal habit. It was getting on for 8:00 a.m. by the time we returned to the temple, so he didn’t give a class. 

* * * 

After his morning rest Śrīla Prabhupāda relaxed with Parivrājakācārya Swami, Pradyumna and me in his room. He talked more about his favorite subject—material scientists. The newspapers are still full of stories about the American landing on Mars, and their soil sampling for evidence of life. He condemned them all as bluffers and cheaters. He said that to accept the moon and Mars as simply stone, sand, and desert means we have to reject all the Vedic śāstras. Why is everything simply sand, he asked. Even here we see deserts, mountains, fertile regions, cities, ice, snow, and seas—every type of condition, and life everywhere. So why not on the moon as well? Laughing, he said that the scientists are so unfortunate that everywhere they go is simply desert. He also asked why, if the moon is different from Earth, Mars is the same as the moon?  

He stressed that our approach is also scientific, that we don’t speak anything unscientific. Even if we accept that there is only sand, that means there must have been water originally, for sand is formed from water. And as soon as there is water, there must be vegetation. And from vegetation there must come other forms of life. The modern scientist’s version that there was originally gas which liquefied and then became solid agrees with the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam’s version which describes how each of the pañca-bhūta, the five  basic material elements, come one from the other: ether, air, fire, water and then earth.  

Prabhupāda rejected outright my explanation that they say no life can exist on these planets because there is no atmosphere to support it. He said there was no question of there being no atmosphere. Some kind of atmosphere is present, but it is simply of a different type. Even on the sun there is life because the living beings there have bodies predominantly made from fire. He quoted Bhagavad-gītā 2.23 (and chided me for not knowing immediately where the reference was when he quoted the Sanskrit) which states that every living entity can live anywhere, in all conditions because the soul is unaffected by material conditions.  

“So where is question of atmosphere influence?” Prabhupāda asked. “Suppose there is rock and sand and always hot weather; that does not mean there cannot be any life. The life is never affected by all these things. Make propaganda about this knowledge. People will understand that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not joking; it is something serious. That boy was saying that these scientist, they know me, the so-called astronomer, scientist? Who was this boy?” 

“Yes. Jñānagamya. He used to do some science research as well,” I said. 

Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja said that scientists think that if we have not seen something, it doesn’t exist. 

“You have to see from the book,” Śrīla Prabhupāda replied. “Seeing from the book is real seeing. What you can see with these blunt eyes? I have seen in these navigators. They see in the different plans and books, and they direct their ship or airplane accordingly. How can he see where we are going? They have got all plans and direction, and altitude, latitude, which direction is going on in front of the pilot. So everything is there. In what position the plane is there, how high it is and how low it will be, where it is, everything. On that direction they can fly. Otherwise, what they can see with the eyes? At most ten miles, and it is running at six hundred miles? What ten miles will do them? So śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Authoritative literature should be the eyes, not these blunt eyes. What is the value of these eyes? Here is authority: nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. You should go to the school, colleges, and from Bhagavad-gītā give them knowledge. The whole world is in darkness, and these rascals are guiding them.”  

As he relaxed on his āsana his thoughts returned to his breakfast. He had taken some more of the nīm baḍa that I made for him in France and he asked if Parivrājakācārya and Pradyumna had tried it. “Did you like it?” 

Parivrājakācārya said it tasted very healthy. 

Prabhupāda was puzzled. “Healthy?” 

Parivrājakācārya smiled. “Healthy. It tasted like it was good for me.” 

I interpreted for him. “That means it didn’t taste very nice, but we accepted it was good.” 

Parivrājakācārya laughed. “I know by my intelligence that it is good to keep eating, even though my tongue was saying ‘Stop.’ ” 

When I first joined Śrīla Prabhupāda’s party in Delhi last November I was given some of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s remnants which included some kerela, bitter melon. I could hardly eat it because I had no conception that something bitter could be pleasant. At that time Prabhupāda had laughed and told me it was an acquired taste and that we Westerners had no idea of proper foods. Now he again told us, “No, this nīm is good. They say that if you eat at least two leaves of nīm daily, you’ll never lose your appetite, appetite will be continuing.” 

Although I have become accustomed to, and even gotten to like, kerela, nīm is still a bit hard to take. I laughed, “Who can eat two leaves of nīm?” 

“No, if you practice,” Prabhupāda smiled, “it is not impossible.” 

Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja mentioned that nīm trees don’t grow in Iran. 

Śrīla Prabhupāda made another of his unusual observations. “No tree. In the desert, where is tree? All desert. All this Middle East, desert. So they can be allowed to eat meat. Otherwise, what they’ll eat? So everyone must eat something. So if there is no vegetation, if there is no sufficient, they can be allowed.”  

Parivrājakācārya described a visit he had made to some villages in the south of Iran. “The tents of nomads who kept sheep, that was their life. They had a tent and they had hundreds of sheep, and they would move the tent every month.” 

Prabhupāda was interested to know why they kept changing.  

“Because they’re desert people. The sheep eat all the little green, and then they have to move on. All they had to eat was the milk of sheep and goats and sometimes when they would camp near a farm they would have vegetables. Sometimes. And then the meat of the sheep.” 

“And these dates. In the desert the date tree grows,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said. “Sometimes they eat camel also. Do they not?” 

“Yes.” 

“They cannot be strictly vegetarian; it is not possible,” Prabhupāda said. “But even they eat meat they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no harm.”  

Parivrājakācārya did also point out that nowadays the government is irrigating the land and all kinds of vegetables and grains can be grown, so now people cannot use the excuse that they have to eat meat.  

Prabhupāda had another alternative. “They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? Kṛṣṇa gives the water from the sky. Yajñād bhavati parjanyo.” 

Parivrājakācārya said that 2–3,000 years ago, this region was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert, and the rain has stopped. 

This was because the yajña had stopped, Prabhupāda told him. Then he added yet another one of his insights as to why the moon could not be desert: “The thing is that the more people become sinful, they’ll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I’m surprised that moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?” 

* * * 

There hasn’t been much mail but one letter Śrīla Prabhupāda replied today was from Catur Mūrti dāsa, a devotee living in New Māyāpur, France, who is having Prabhupāda’s books translated into Spanish and Portuguese. He has been preaching in Spain and he expressed his desire to try to please His Divine Grace by his efforts.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda was very happy to hear of his keen endeavor and surrender to his guru. He wrote back, “Please push on this movement in the Spanish and Portuguese languages with great enthusiasm and certainly Krsna will bless you for taking so much trouble to preach His glories. A Vaisnava always feels himself incapable to repay his debt to his spiritual master therefore he works very hard in order to try and repay that debt. He knows that without the mercy of the spiritual master one cannot preach this Krsna consciousness and therefore he always tries to act in such a way that he may please his guru.” 

* * * 

During his massage, which he took inside his room because the sun was too hot, Śrīla Prabhupāda heard the beautiful tones of  various bhajanas coming from the neighboring room. He asked me who was singing. Harikeśa Mahārāja told me that it was a record called Vrindavana which was produced in France by our devotees, featuring the voices of Maṇibandha dāsa and Kauśalya dāsī.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda liked it very much. With his eyes half closed as I massaged the mustard oil into his back, he recalled how he had first met Kauśalya in Hawaii. She had been living on a beach, he said, and he had convinced her to become a devotee. He is always pleased to see his disciples, many of whom were hippies and dropouts, become useful in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and live constructive, meaningful lives.  

* * * 

The devotees here are not formally worshipping a Deity, nor is there much of a morning program, apart from chanting japa. But they have a small altar and pictures of Guru and Gaurāṅga which they normally keep upstairs beyond the view of casual visitors. Sixteen-inch marble deities of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are here, but Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu has not yet allowed Them to be worshipped. This has apparently been a source of some debate amongst the devotees, some thinking it māyā to not have a program of Deity worship. Atreya Ṛṣi, however, is aware of the potential danger—Moslems prohibit the worship of any specific personal form of God and consider deity worship a great offense. And since they frequently have Moslem guests, Atreya Ṛṣi doesn’t want to take any risk. On the other hand, Indian guests are reluctant to come because they can not wholly take to a temple lacking Deities. Atreya Ṛṣi intends to purchase another building, so that they can have two separate meeting places, thus resolving the dilemma. But still he feels they cannot sustain the strict standards of daily Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship because of a lack of manpower.  

Nandarāṇī came to see Śrīla Prabhupāda this afternoon for advice on this and other matters concerning her service. Prabhupāda agreed with Atreya Ṛṣi’s strategy and suggested that they worship Gaura-Nitāi Deities, because They can be worshipped simply by kīrtana. Or if they want, he said they can worship Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa with a reduced program of only three offerings and āratis a day (maṅgala, raj-bhoga, and sundara) along with daily bathing and dressing of Their Lordships. He indicated that he had no objection to them beginning the Deity worship in this house, but because Atreya Ṛṣi feels another house is needed, Prabhupāda is willing to go along with that. 

Nandarāṇī also detailed her personal preaching program. She is teaching about thirty Indian children devotional songs and practices two days a week. Their parents are all business people and have little time to inculcate their offspring with their own culture. In fact, Nandarāṇī said the children were just like western children, who knew nothing of Vedic life-style and spirituality. So the parents are very happy that Nandarāṇī is giving them some education in kīrtana, pūjā and Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes. They even pay a small tuition fee of $15 or $20. Now she has formed the children into a drama troupe and they meet each day to practice “The Birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa.” Its performance will be the highlight of their Janmāṣṭamī celebrations, to be held on August 18. They expect an audience of about 400 Indians to attend.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda also discussed some philosophy with her. Pointing out that Moslems offer prayers, he said that unless God was a person, how could He accept them? If their prayers were for the glorification of Allah, that meant that He must have glorious activities. Quoting the Brahma-saṁhitā he said, “The Lord is tending cows and He’s surrounded by so many goddesses of fortune, gopīs. These things are described. So the Lord’s activities, Lord’s place, how He is surrounded by other devotees or servitors, how He is tending—these are prayers. So what is their prayer? Did you try to understand? What do they offer?” 

Nandarāṇī said they don’t emphasize how He is great, just that He is great. 

“Then there is the proof of less intelligence,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said. “God is great, very good. But how He is great? What is the conception of greatness? You accept me as spiritual master, great; so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of ‘He is great’? They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea; actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas; ‘God is great,’ that’s all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?” 

“But their faith is there,” Nandarāṇī pointed out. 

“That is good, but that is called bhakta prakṛta smṛtaḥ. That is not exactly on the transcendental platform. In the material platform, just appreciating some great power beyond our reach, that’s all. Not clear idea, therefore they are disturbed when they think form. Form means limitation, they think. They do not know. Nobody knows, except in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why we have described about God in so many books? But they have this idea, very poor idea. But they are accepting God is great, that will help in future.” 

“That faith is elevating them?” Nandarāṇī asked. 

“Someday, if they come in contact with a real devotee, they’ll appreciate. Just like you are coming. So they have to meet some devotee, then they’ll be benefited. With the present idea there will be very slow progress. Practically no progress, but even there is little progress, very slow. So unless they come in contact with a pure devotee.” 

I suggested they could get that contact through Prabhupāda’s books, and Nandarāṇī also said that if they distributed Prabhupāda’s books and prasādam, that was as good as meeting Prabhupāda personally. 

“No, personally also, you can do,” Prabhupāda said. “If they come, you instruct them. But the prasādam and book distribution is very important line. If he’s intelligent, by reading books will help him. In Europe and America, you have got intelligence. By reading books, they are coming to the sense.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda was pleased to hear Nandarāṇī inform him that, because Iranians were not familiar with English, they were planning to get Śrī Īśopaniṣad translated, as well as the essay “Who is Crazy.” 

* * * 

Gradually guests began to arrive for the evening darśana. Parivrājakācārya Swami brought a friend, Ali, who described himself as a Sufi dervish. He was an intelligent and well-spoken man, fluent in English and with a deep interest in spiritual life. Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja told Prabhupāda that he has translated a pamphlet for us, on vegetarianism.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda took that as a good lead, telling Ali that his mission was not to make people vegetarian. That would automatically come about. The purpose of the movement, he said, was to help people develop love of Godhead. And unless people know God, he asked, where is the question of love? Stating that love means “direct contact,” he said that people talk of love of God, but because they do not know who or what is God, their talk has no practical value. 

He asked his guest for a definition of love, but Ali could give no clear understanding.  

When Parivrājakācārya offered to give an explanation of bhakti, Śrīla Prabhupāda told him, “No, you bring another word. But explain it, what is love. In Vedic language you get every definition. Love means two persons, both of them—beloved and the lover. Is it not? The first condition of love means there must be two persons. What do you think? There must be two persons when there is question of love.” 

“Yes, it’s a reciprocation,” I observed. 

“Ah,” Prabhupāda said in agreement. “Otherwise where is love? What is this? Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Try to understand one step by step.” 

He quoted from Śrī Upadeśāmṛta, describing the different kinds of loving reciprocation delineated by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī: “Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there. Otherwise, where there is question of love? To appreciate God is great, that is not love, that is simply appreciation. But when we actually give everything to God and take everything from Him, you talk with Him of your mind, He talks with you. You give Him to eat, and whatever He gives, you eat. In this way there is question of love. Simply appreciation of the greatness of God, that is good, in God consciousness, but that is not love. The love stage is different.” 

Ali asked how one could understand God’s love, and Prabhupāda brought it to an even more practical platform. “This is the process, I’ve described. We have got Deity of the Lord, we offer foodstuff prepared very nicely, and whatever leftover is there, we eat. We dress very nicely with flowers, with ornaments; we give Him a nice place to sit down, to sleep. He also looks after our comfort. In this way, exchange of love.” 

A long and interesting conversation ensued with Ali asking good questions about how one understands God and how one makes spiritual progress, and Śrīla Prabhupāda supplying the kind of deep insights only a master practitioner could know. The main qualification required, Śrīla Prabhupāda said, was that one must be eager to know God more and more intimately. By practical action the imperfect material senses become purified, and when they are fully spiritualized then the reciprocal exchanges can take place. In order to take up practical action one needs proper training and therefore acceptance of a spiritual master is mandatory.  

He gave an example. “Just like if you want to be an engineer, you must be trained under some engineer. Similarly, if you want to be trained up spiritually, then you must accept a spiritual master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: must, otherwise not possible. Training. So spiritual master trains with these books, and explanation, practical demonstration. In this way the student makes progress spiritually.” 

He elaborately described the difference between the body and soul, repeatedly stressing the need to be practical. Simply talking of God, he told Ali, was not enough. It was like swimming—one can learn the theory, but when you get in the water you actually have to do it. “We are talking of God, but instead of loving God, we are loving this body. So that is not practical. That is simply waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam. If one does not become enthused to love God, then simply talking about God is a waste of time. That is going on all over the world. Somebody’s Hindu, somebody’s Christian, somebody’s Muhammadan. They are going to the church, they are going to mosque, they are going to temple, everything is going on, but when you ask whether you love God or dog, he’ll say, ‘I love dog.’ Practically we see. Everyone is keeping a dog, very favorite pet. And in church, they’ll talk of God, but practically they love the dog. Is it not? This is going on, in the name of religion, that’s all. Therefore Bhāgavata says it is simply waste of time.” 

He gave another graphic example illustrating the mentality of those who approach God for material things such as a car, wife, house or some money. “Just like a vulture. The vulture goes very, very high, four miles high, five miles. But his business is to find out where there is a corpse.” He raised his hand in the air. “Very highly elevated, but business is to find out a dead body. And as soon as he finds it . . .” He brought his hand sweeping down. “So this is going on. Very religious, very regularly performing religious ceremonies, rituals, but the business is where is a corpse. ‘Come on, here is some sense gratification.’ This is going on. If you are talking of God, then you must love God. That is progress. But there is no love of God, there is love of something else, so what is the use of talking about?” 

Ali touched upon some of the dervish concepts and practices. He referred to what he called “internal dialogue” and while asking Śrīla Prabhupāda what its purpose was, he simultaneously gave his own definition. “Internal dialogue, we talk to ourselves all the time, we can’t be silent.” 

“You talk with whom?” Prabhupāda asked. “There must be second person. When you talk, you are one person, and another person must be there. Who is that other person? With whom you talk?” 

“With the self,” Ali said. 

“Then you are lunatic,” Prabhupāda frankly told him. “Just like a lunatic, he talks alone.” 

Ali tried to clarify what he meant. “No, this is silent talk, like the mind, you can’t stop.” 

But Śrīla Prabhupāda understood the process more than he did. “No, the idea is when you talk of talking, there must be two. So self, then you have to admit the self becomes two, otherwise there is no talking. This is good: that one is Superself, another is subordinate self. So when the subordinate self is able to talk with the Superself, then he gets right direction, his life is very successful.” 

“Is the Superself a spirit?” Ali asked, intrigued. 

“Yes,” Prabhupāda told him. “When you say self, it is spirit. Spirit, the Supreme Spirit, and the subordinate spirit. The Supreme Being and the subordinate being. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.”  

I already had the Gītā in hand and quickly turned the pages to verse 15.15 as Prabhupāda asked, “You find out this verse: sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo.” 

On his indication I read out the verse and purport, and Prabhupāda added that Veda meant the book of knowledge. “So any book of knowledge which gives you direction how to understand God and how to love Him, that is perfect.” 

Ali listened attentively, appreciating what he heard. At the end he said, “But this knowledge cannot be attained unless we are aware of the spiritual.” 

“Yes,” Prabhupāda said. “Any knowledge you have to acquire, either from the Supersoul within your self or His representative outside. You have to learn it.” 

“Why have we chosen this?” Ali said, meaning the external form of religion. “This seems so irrelevant . . .”  

Śrīla Prabhupāda assured him that even the rituals, if carried out for the purpose of attaining actual love of God, were good. “They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is the ritualistic. Then there is further progress. One must be interested. But people are losing interest even in the neophyte stage. They’re becoming godless. That is going on. So that is very dangerous. Instead of becoming godless, if somebody approaches God, it doesn’t matter in some way, some ritual, it is better than this atheist class of men. At least they are accepting God. And if they offer prayers sincerely, God is there within your heart, He’ll gradually reveal. The more you become purified, the more He reveals. Then He’ll talk with you. So everything depends on the sincerity and seriousness. And if we take these ritualistic ceremonies, ‘Now I’ve gone to church or mosque, I have gone to temple, finish. Now let me do whatever I like.’ Then that is waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam.” 

Their discussion had gone on for almost two hours. Bringing it to a close, Śrīla Prabhupāda stressed the common platform of spiritual attainment. “So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy, it doesn’t matter either you are Iranian or Indian, chant the holy name of God. I think there should not be any objection for this movement. What do you think? We are simply pleading, ‘My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God.’ Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it, there is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you’ll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult, this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that’s all.” 

Just after 9 p.m. the conversation was winding down when Atreya Ṛṣi walked in. He was jubilant. He informed Prabhupāda that after a year of fruitless searching he had just successfully negotiated the purchase of a new building. He invited Prabhupāda to inspect it. “It is both a nice location and a nice small house. We can also get a bigger one nearby—and a bigger one. We can take the whole city!” 

Prabhupāda laughed at his enthusiasm and agreed to visit. Atreya Ṛṣi suggested they wait until Thursday, two days hence, in order to avoid the heavy congestion of city traffic. 

* * *  

Just before resting this evening Śrīla Prabhupāda ate some puffed rice prepared by Nandarāṇī. He likes his puffed rice lightly fried in a little ghee, with salt and pepper added.  

August 10th, 1976

Today is the appearance of Lord Baladeva, but we all broke the fast because no one checked the calendar until it was too late. Śrīla Prabhupāda wasn’t happy about it but didn’t react too strongly. He simply told us to observe it tomorrow.  

* * * 

Prabhupāda didn’t take his walk this morning because his legs are swollen, but he still preached to everyone on the back balcony for an hour, prompting the devotees to present challenges to our philosophy, and then giving effective counter arguments to defeat them. His disciples here are preaching under difficult circumstances, and he infused them with encouragement and strength by his attentive concern to the mission they were attempting to conduct in such a remote place. 

Navayauvana kicked off the debate by saying that people see us as being sectarian. He said they have their rituals, and we have ours, and they don’t see any greater benefit in what we are doing. Atreya Ṛṣi added that many people simply find fault with us.  

After a short exchange Prabhupāda boiled it down to one basic issue. “So what they want us to do? If you don’t want me to do this, then you must say what you want me to do. Is it not right? Suppose I am chanting. If you don’t want me to chant, then what do you want me to do? The next question will be.” 

Jñānagamya said people want us to engage, as they are in sense gratification. 

But Prabhupāda reduced that to a basic premise as well: “Who will decide who is right? Eh? You cannot find fault with me by saying that I am not acting like you, sense gratification. If you are acting in your way, I am acting in my way.” 

Jñānagamya suggested it was all relative. 

“But if you want philosophy, the aim of life,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said, “then we can talk; what is the destination of life, what is required. If you criticize me, then I can criticize you also.” 

“Then we must take it to the absolute platform in order to actually have a sincere argument, to make a sincere decision,” Jñānagamya proposed. 

That was the solution Śrīla Prabhupāda was looking for. “Yes. There is no end of such things. Therefore unless one accepts a person guru, there is no need of talking. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Unless one accepts somebody as guru, the instruction will not be fruitful. Just like Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru. So long he was talking as friend, it was not effective. Arjuna therefore decided . . . Find out that verse, kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.” 

Harikeśa Mahārāja read out the full verse and then the translation. “Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.” 

“This is the position,” Prabhupāda went on. “Unless one feels like that and asks somebody, a superior, accepts him as guru, there is no use talking. If anyone is interested to know about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a guru, and unless one approaches a guru, he cannot understand, and if by force I become guru, he may not be interested. This is the position.  

“But still, for a preacher, he has to do something against all odds. That is preaching. Your question was that we go and they say like this, but you cannot expect that wherever you are going you’ll find favorable situation to talk. That you must understand. But you have to preach, you have to create favorable situation. That is your duty. If they are not prepared to take good instruction, you cannot expect favorable situation. It is not possible. When I came in America, I never expected any favorable situation. I wrote that poetry in disappointment, that ‘Who will accept this?’ That is the position. By Kṛṣṇa’s grace, gradually it will become a favorable situation, but don’t expect any favorable situation. You have to handle unfavorable situation and make favorable situation to preach. That is preaching.  

“Nityānanda Prabhu, He went to preach to Jagāi and Mādhāi. There was no favorable situation. They were drunkards; they caused injury on the body of Nityānanda Prabhu. So this is preaching with only unfavorable situation. You cannot expect favorable situation. And still you have to preach. That is preaching. They will speak like madmen, so many things. They are mad, after all; nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. They have no sense. All materialistic persons are madmen. Still, by the order of superior, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we have to do this preaching work.  

“Actually, the American boys are fighting against so many unfavorable situations. They are sometimes beaten in the airport, you know that? Still they are preaching; that is preaching. ‘The unfavorable situation, so let me give it up,’ that is not preaching. Yes, we must know that there is unfavorable situation, still I have to. That depends on your brain, how to tackle. You cannot expect favorable situation.” 

Jñānagamya brought up an idea he was keen on developing: “Is it good to publicize these situations, Prabhupāda, that we are encountering so much difficulty? Is it good to publicize that, in a film, say?” 

He got an unexpected, strongly negative response from Śrīla Prabhupāda. “Film? No, no, you don’t talk of film. You are very much in favor of film. You better stop that idea.” 

Jñānagamya was a little persistent, hoping for some favorable hint from Śrīla Prabhupāda with which he could pursue his idea, but Prabhupāda held fast to his line. He wasn’t at all enthusiastic about it. He granted that a documentary showing some of our activities in feeding the poor might have good effect, but he said that even that would only be limited.  

Jñānagamya was thinking, as Prabhupāda knew he was, of something on a much bigger scale and scope: “But if we make a film to go in the movie houses all over the world, the big movie houses, not just for little schools or little groups, not just for the temple.” 

“What kind of film?” Prabhupāda asked. 

“A film that would show activities of devotees. And have some story . . .” 

“But you said they do not like it,” Prabhupāda challenged him. 

“No, I never said they do not like it,” Jñānagamya said. 

“Ah, you said that sense gratification,” Prabhupāda quickly reminded him. Jñānagamya had to give a little laugh, being forced to concede to the sharpness of Prabhupāda’s mind. And Prabhupāda went on, “How they’ll appreciate?” 

Jñānagamya tried to be upbeat and positive. “They will appreciate, it is something new, it is very different, it is very beautiful and attractive.” 

“Of course, I cannot understand,” Prabhupāda said mildly. After a few seconds he asked. “What is the favorable condition of film?” 

Atreya Ṛṣi explained that Jñānagamya wanted to make a big film showing the devotees life-style—how we learn and carry out saṅkīrtana.  

Prabhupāda said that people could already see that. 

But Jñānagamya pointed out that there were still many people who have never heard of us, and films would go to every little town and village, exposing them to the chanting and arousing interest in what the devotees are doing. 

Prabhupāda was not convinced. “But their opinion is not in favor, as you said.” 

Jñānagamya said he felt public opinion could be changed through books and films. As an example he cited the more favorable climate in America towards the black population, which had been helped by films showing black people in heroic roles.  

But Prabhupāda disagreed. He didn’t think there had been any real improvement in relations between blacks and whites. There was still tension, with many areas where the blacks live and whites cannot go. He felt that any change has only been superficial. The real problem, he pointed out, was to educate people to give up the bodily concept of life. He observed that real change would be wrought by an example of behavior, not by showing a film. 

Atreya Ṛṣi, picking up on Śrīla Prabhupāda’s mood, added, “With Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have the books, which are paramparā. And we have ourselves as examples. If we can be paramparā and we can be good examples . . .” 

“That is my opinion,” Prabhupāda nodded. “That instead of spending so much money for films, if you spend some money for propagation of book distribution . . .” Accepting that any advertisement was good, he had still another objection. “The film advertisement is very expensive. Very, very expensive. Advertisement never goes in vain, that’s a fact. But if it is too much expensive, it touches our financial position.” 

When I added that there was no certainty of success, Jñānagamya continued to be positive. “There is a method,” he said, “There is a method . . .” 

“Suppose there is little success,” Prabhupāda cut in, “but in comparison to the money expended, that success is little. Just like in the beginning I advertised my books in The New York Times. They charged me sixty-three dollars, a small space. So there was inquiry, not order, three inquiries. Not even order. I have got this experience. For me, at that time, sixty-three dollars was too much.” We all smiled at the thought as he continued. “So I did not get any response. That is my practical experience. The New York Times, they have got millions of customers and millions of readers, but I got three inquiries.” 

Atreya Ṛṣi said he thought that within a big city only a few people would become devotees, and they would come by Kṛṣṇa’s arrangement, not by any amount of advertising.  

Prabhupāda agreed. “Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that it is only for the fortunate persons. But we must present. Only the fortunate will come forward. We cannot expect that everyone will come, that is not possible.” 

Still Jñānagamya persisted. “But you said to make everyone fortunate.” 

“Yes, that is by your preaching,” Prabhupāda said. “That we have to do. We are doing that. That I have given the example, Nityānanda Prabhu. He faced the danger, and by His power converted the Jagāi-Mādhāi. By chanting. They injured, Jagāi-Mādhāi injured, and Nityānanda Prabhu said, ‘Never mind you have injured Me, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.’ That is not advertisement, that is personal behavior.” 

Jñānagamya was tenacious in the pursuit of his idea. He tried another approach. “In Dallas there’s a town next door, Fort Worth, there are many rich Baptists. They have a big studio for producing many different films, television shows.” 

Prabhupāda shook his head. “These Christian people, they have got money, and still the churches are being closed. What is the effect?” 

“They have no potency to their message,” Jñānagamya said, “It’s not the medium, it’s their message.” 

“Whatever it may be,” Prabhupāda said reasonably, “by their advertisement, the effect is the churches have been closed. Eh? Is it not?” 

By this time we were all smiling, appreciating Śrīla Prabhupāda’s irrefutable logic and his mild but determined stance against the idea of big film production. Jñānagamya still tried one final time to keep his idea alive by implying that churches were not essential. He said that there are people who want to be Christians, but don’t go to church. 

But Śrīla Prabhupāda had finished with the subject. “You do not understand? That means it has no effect.” 

Jñānagamya fell silent, unable to raise any further arguments to support his idea.  

After a few moments Prabhupāda turned his attention back to philosophical debate. “Now talk about something substantial. Yesterday we were talking about the proprietorship of God. If people are interested to talk like gentlemen, how they can refute the proprietorship of God of everything? Talk on this point.” 

The conversation went on for a good forty minutes, with Śrīla Prabhupāda inducing a thorough discussion on topics ranging from proprietorship, to the cause of war, the fraud of Freud and the meaning of humanity.  

Another lamb’s pathetic bleating caught his attention as we discussed, and he logically analyzed the consequences of thinking that God’s creation was ours to enjoy. “God has given you enjoyment, but you cannot enjoy yourself, alone. There are other sons, they will also enjoy. If you interfere with other sons, then you’ll be punished. God’s son is the lamb, and you let him enjoy, you also enjoy. But if you interfere with his right, then you’ll be punished. That is God’s law. Sarva yoniṣu, God is not only your father, He’s father of the lamb also. So if by your brute force you want to kill the poor lamb, then you’ll be punished. This is natural. You have got your food, you produce your food grain and you eat. Why should you eat another animal? God says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni, you must eat to become strong. But that does not mean you’ll eat another brother. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, whatever He has designated, you eat like that. You are human being, you can produce food. You grow foodstuffs, rice, wheat, fruit, flowers, vegetables, and offer it to Kṛṣṇa: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. He never says that ‘You give Me an animal.’ So you produce patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ, and offer to Kṛṣṇa, and then take.” 

Dayānanda raised the old rationale that unless we eat meat we cannot be strong. 

“Therefore you are not human being, you are animal,” Prabhupāda responded. “Uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being. If you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.” 

Navayauvana said, “They are thinking that they are the proprietor.” 

“That is their folly, they are not proprietor. Proprietor is the Supreme Lord; you are not proprietor. Everyone is claiming proprietor and they are fighting. That is going on. And if you accept God is proprietor and we are dependent on Him, then there is no fight. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, this īśāvāsyam verse is perfectly describing: tena tyaktena, you are not proprietor. You accept things what the proprietor has allotted for you. Do not encroach upon others. We are falsely claiming proprietorship, we are encroaching upon others’ independence. How there can be peace? It is not possible. This property is walled, that property is walled, you cannot encroach on the other side of the wall; then it is criminal, trespassing. The government’s duty is to see that nobody’s encroaching on others. Similarly, God’s duty is that—that everyone is God’s son, you don’t encroach upon other son’s right, then you’ll be punished. You have got right to live and the lamb has got right to live. Why should you encroach upon his living right? Because you are strong? That is not humanity.  

“The animal is there for benefit. Let him live and you take the fur. You can use it for your coat, but why should you kill it? The cow is giving milk like mother, why should you kill it? This is humanity, to kill the mother? So in this way we are encroaching the rights of others, and we are becoming subject to be punished by God. This is going on. You may say there is no God, but God is there, you’ll be punished. The outlaw they will say, ‘We don’t care for government.’ You may say so, but government will take action. You cannot avoid it. This is humanity. Good citizenship means one who knows the laws of the state. He knows this is the order of the government: cars should be driven on the right side or left side. He is good citizen. One who does not know the law of the state is not a good citizen. He’s a fool, rascal. What to speak of humanity.” 

Dayānanda presented another objection. “Some people say, ‘I don’t care for your rational arguments.’ ” 

“Then you are animal,” Prabhupāda repeated, “because animal has no rationality. What is the use of talking with you? You are animal. You have no rationality. Man is rational animal, this is the definition. If you have no rationality, then you are animal. That is the difficulty. People are kept in the status of animal and they expect human behavior. How it is possible? It is not possible. So therefore our endeavor is to bring them to the standard of humanity, real humanity. Then there will be peace, prosperity, everything all right. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.  

“This is Vedic injunction. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna. Anyone who has no religious principles, he’s animal. Therefore you’ll find in human society, it doesn’t matter whether it is Iran or India or Europe, there is some religion. Because without religion they are animals. Dog is dog. It is not a Christian dog or a Hindu dog; Hindu, Christian comes when they are human being. So a civilized society must be the rationality, religion. Religion is rationality, to accept God.” 

Navayauvana pointed out that religion has a bad name. “Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of . . .” 

But Prabhupāda had a convincing counter-argument. “And the communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you’ll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight.”  

It was getting time for guru-pūjā and class, and as we prepared to go downstairs at the end of another edifying session, Navayauvana prabhu summed up our conviction. “Everything you say, Prabhupāda, makes sense. Everything you say makes sense.” 

“Yes, our preaching should be sensible, then people will accept,” Prabhupāda acknowledged modestly. “After all, they are human being. There is sense, but by force they are covering the sense. So we have to awaken them by handling carefully, that’s all. Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . jīva jāgo jīva jāgo gauracānda bole. They are sleeping. We have to awaken them, that’s it; that is preaching. Even the animal-killing, where it is absolutely necessary . . . So according to any religious principle, there is God. Just like who was telling me? You were telling me about the lamb killing? The injunction is the mouth should be toward Mecca. So because there is no other way . . . Suppose in the desert, what they’ll do? They must eat something, but still there is sense of God, there is some regulative principle. So in this way God consciousness must be there. That is civilization.” 

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda went downstairs to the temple room for the regular guru-pūjā. He gave Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class on 3.22.20, albeit another very short one, underscoring the principle that whether one is married or a renunciate, one should know the science of Kṛṣṇa. He used the appropriate examples of Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who was born in a Mohammedan family, and Sanātana Gosvāmī, whom he said, actually became Mohammedan to the point of eating with them, adopting a Mohammedan name and being rejected by brahminical society, to show that anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa can become a guru.  

Bringing the principle home to the present he told his handful of disciples, “Caitanya Mahāprabhu says everything very simplified. Wherever you are living, it doesn’t matter. Just like our Atreya Ṛṣi, he’s gṛhastha, he’s living in Iran, but it doesn’t matter. If he speaks kṛṣṇa-kathā, then he’s guru. It is very simple thing. We should not speak beyond what is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Take Bhagavad-gītā and try to preach the principles, speak whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. This ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa I have translated as ‘Kṛṣṇa conscious,’ how to make people Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our mission. On this principle, either gṛhastha or vānaprastha or sannyāsī, everyone can take part. Philosophy, the truth, should be preached. Everyone will be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.” 

* * * 

Today during his massage Śrīla Prabhupāda listened to one of his own song tapes. The melodious strains of the harmonium caused him to smile. He recalled that as a young man his friend’s sister had wanted to marry him because of his expertise at playing the harmonium.  

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda came down into the kitchen today to talk with Nandarāṇī about her efforts to conserve vegetables by bottling and freezing them. I had expressed concern to her when I heard she was doing this because of what Śrīla Prabhupāda said in France about frozen foods being tamasic.  She explained to him that in winter no vegetables whatsoever are available. He consented, once again demonstrating his willingness to adjust devotional activity according to time, place and circumstance.  

* * * 

This evening’s darśana was the longest so far. Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke continuously from 6:00 P.M. until 9:30 P.M., first to the devotees in the early part of the evening, and then with members of the Indian community.  

Atreya Ṛṣi got back a little earlier from his work, eager to get as much association as possible with His Divine Grace. Sitting out on the balcony Śrīla Prabhupāda asked Atreya Ṛṣi, “What is your independence? Are you independent?” 

“There are all sorts of rascals, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One kind of rascal is the mūḍhā kind, who like to enjoy. He thinks he is independent.”  

“That is also dependent,” Prabhupāda said. 

“Yes, but he thinks, ‘I can eat chicken or eggs or fish.’ ” 

“That’s all right,” Śrīla Prabhupāda repeated, “that is dependent. Wherefrom the chicken comes?” 

“From the fields.” 

“Fields? No, it comes from the chicken. So therefore he has to depend on other chickens,” he said, drawing out some laughter from his small audience. “What is his independence?” 

“But I can kill them and eat them,” Atreya said. 

“That means if there is supply of chicken, then you can kill. Otherwise, where is the opportunity of killing and eating? Killing facility will be there if there is chicken. Just like a tiger in the jungle. They are very expert, but they do not get food daily. Because the other animals, they also know that part of the jungle there is tiger, they avoid going there. So he doesn’t get daily food. He kills one animal and keeps it hidden and takes little, little. They are always hungry, although they have got good strength, but where is the opportunity? And there is one small animal, he’s called phew. As soon as the tiger gets out to find out some prey, this small animal warns, ‘phew.’ The other animals will understand the tiger is coming. So despite getting good strength, good jaws, good nails—there is no food; he’s dependent. If God supplies him, then he’ll get opportunity. Otherwise, these nails and jaws and strength are useless.” 

Dayānanda and Atreya Ṛṣi tried to argue that man could use his own intelligence in order to create the things he lacks, but again Prabhupāda pointed out that without the supply, which comes from God, we cannot use our intelligence.  

I recalled the slide show our scientists showed us in Washington last month, wherein they depicted Mozart’s confession that his inspiration to write his music was not his own creation but came to him from a source he could not identify. 

“And that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said. “Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. So intelligence comes from God.”  

Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu posed a question which he said many Iranians ask. “If He is giving us intelligence, why doesn’t He give us enough intelligence so that we could be God conscious?” 

Prabhupāda immediately confirmed, “Yes, He’s giving. Read the Bhagavad-gītā. But you rascals don’t accept, what can be done? God is personally coming to give you intelligence; take this intelligence. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata  tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. ‘I come when there is no intelligence, when you are all rascals, I come to give you intelligence, but you don’t take, what can I do?’ That is God’s mission, that ‘These rascals, without properly being guided they’ll go to hell. Let Me give them some intelligence.’ That is Bhagavad-gītā.  

“Arjuna is kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: ‘I have become confused, so give me intelligence.’ Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam. He’s taking intelligence, how to tackle the situation. He was to fight as a kṣatriya, but he saw that the persons with whom he has to fight, they are all family members. So what kind of fight is that? Who is fighting with family members? That was his confusion. Suppose we are Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Then if we declare fight amongst ourselves, is that very intelligent? So actually the Kurukṣetra battle was like that. Some intrigue of Dhṛtarāṣṭra that his son will occupy the throne, that was the cause of the fight. So Arjuna thought that ‘My uncle may be intriguing person, he has brought this disaster, fight amongst the family members, so why shall I do it? Better let them enjoy. They are also family members. Why this unnecessary fight?’ He was responsible, he was not unreasonable. Very good man, that ‘After all, they are also our family members, let them enjoy. Why there is unnecessary fight amongst family members?’ He was not a coward, but he’s good reasonable man, that ‘We are all brothers. They want to rule over. Let them rule over. Why fight?’  

“Sometimes it is misunderstood, that Arjuna is such a nice man, he didn’t want to fight, and Kṛṣṇa’s inducing him, ‘Yes, you must fight.’ It is puzzling. God is inducing a good man to fight, who does not want to fight. It is really puzzling. Is it not? Arjuna is a good, nice man, that ‘After all, it is family property. So other brothers, they want to rule it over. Let them do it. I shall better beg only. Why shall I kill them?’ It is good proposal. Very nice gentleman’s proposal. And Kṛṣṇa said, ‘No, you must fight.’ So Kṛṣṇa’s position is very awkward, that He’ll induce such a good man to fight. Superficially one can criticize, ‘How is this? What kind of God you have got, Kṛṣṇa, that He induces a very nice gentleman to fight in the family?’ Superficially, it is like that. But they do not know that this is foolishness, to deny the order of Kṛṣṇa. So who can understand this philosophy? Unless one is a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he cannot understand. 

“Superficially, this is the position. But still Arjuna says that ‘You instruct me.’ He doesn’t give up, he doesn’t reject Kṛṣṇa, that ‘Kṛṣṇa, I am such a gentleman. I do not wish to fight. You are inducing me to fight, I don’t want Your guidance.’ No. Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ: ‘I surrender unto You.’ And therefore Arjuna is so great. He’s not so-called gentleman; he is devotee. What was your question, ‘Why God does not come to instruct us?’ Who said? You told me. It was your question?” 

“Yes,” Atreya Ṛṣi said. “Why doesn’t He give us enough intelligence?” 

“He’s giving intelligence. But if you don’t accept, what can be done? He has come Himself, and He’s giving intelligence. You take it and be happy. But if you don’t take it, what God can do?” 

In mid-evening, Ali came again, asking deep and thoughtful questions which Śrīla Prabhupāda was pleased to answer. Ali is obviously greatly impressed with His Divine Grace and affected by his association. His contemplation of last night’s topics led to another pleasing exchange of philosophical insight and practical observation.  

On Prabhupāda’s prompting he asked, “I was thinking about the material platform that you mentioned last night, and I could not figure out how vast this platform is, what does it consist of, how do we define this platform. Is nature materialism? I mean, there are many things which are obvious, such as money, greed, etc. But how about nature, love?” 

Prabhupāda explained that there are three general platforms—gross material, subtle material and the spiritual. “So the karmīs generally . . . Just like we see in the city, they are all busy, working very hard, they are on the gross material platform. And then next class, just like scientist, poet, philosopher, they are in the subtle platform. And above them, there are persons who are simply interested in spiritual understanding, they are on the spiritual platform. So according to the platform, there are thoughts and activities also. Your question is what is about these so many things. So first of all you have to understand in which platform he is situated. Then his activities are ascertained. If you are in the material platform, doing some business, making some profit, and if you bring there question, ‘What is this, use of material profit, this body is temporary, why I am? . . . ’ then your material activities will be diminished. So we have to understand first of all what is our actual objective. And then if we stand in that platform, then our life is successful.” 

“Does this mean that a person should turn his attention from the world, from his surrounding?” Ali asked. 

“That you cannot do,” Prabhupāda said, explaining, “Just like we, although we are interested fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it doesn’t mean that we do not live in a house, we do not eat, we do not use motorcar, we do not use typewriter, dictaphone. We are using everything. But the purpose is different. We are traveling and paying heavily to the air companies. Whenever I travel, at least five, six men go with me, and one round trip world travel means $12,000. Means about more than one lakh of rupees. So we are spending that, but not for any other purpose than for Kṛṣṇa’s service. Anywhere we speak we are talking only Kṛṣṇa, trying to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business. So the platform is different. Externally, one can see, they are also spending so much money for traveling, they are living in a nice house and they have some nice car. But the consciousness is different. Another example in this connection, that I am sitting on this chair and there is a bug also. He is also sitting on this chair. But that does not mean the bug and myself equal. The bug’s business is different; my business is different. But superficially, if one sees that the bug and Swamijī’s on the same chair, therefore they’re all equal? That is not the fact. Similarly, we may be using all these material things, but we have no material business. We have simply spiritual business.”  

Prabhupāda confirmed Ali’s understanding that one has to live in the material world without becoming attached to it. “No, we have no attachment. We can sit down in this nice building, or we can sit down anywhere. We are not attached to this building; we are attached to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business. And unconditionally we can push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that if we don’t get a nice building as Atreya Ṛṣi has supplied, then we cannot push on. No. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like I began this movement underneath a tree in New York, Tompkinson Square . . . what is that?” 

“Tompkins Square Park,” the devotees reminded him. 

“I used to sit down there. There was no mṛdaṅga. A small dundubhi. And I was chanting three hours—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And people used to come.” 

“In a very bad neighborhood,” Navayauvana added. 

“Yes. Low-class, high-class, we don’t mind,” Prabhupāda said. “We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that’s all. That 26 Second Avenue also not very good neighborhood,” he observed. 

“It’s the worst place in the country!” Jñānagamya said to everyone’s laughter. 

“But I did not know,” Prabhupāda smiled. “Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I’ll come, ‘Yes, you can enter. Please.’ I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, ‘Please go.’ They also knew that ‘He’s a harmless . . . ’ So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā. Then yenātmā suprasīdati, in that condition you can execute. First of all, we have to ascertain on which platform we shall stand. And if you want to stand on the spiritual platform, nothing can check it. That is not conditioned. So why not stand directly to the spiritual platform and make your life successful? That is our preaching. People in general, they do not know the importance of the spiritual platform. Therefore they prefer to stay in the material platform. They have no sufficient education.” 

Ali wanted to know why souls could not grow spiritually without the need of taking material bodies.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda gave him the example of a prisoner in the jail. He doesn’t need to live there but due to ignorance he thinks jail life is better than outside because there he has a room, food and clothing all provided; he doesn’t know there is a better life outside. Similarly, Prabhupāda explained, “He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.” 

When Ali asked how the spirit could become so ignorant, Prabhupāda told him it was due to lack of education.  

Atreya Ṛṣi joined in, trying to clarify Ali’s question a little more. “In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?” 

Prabhupāda shook his head. “If you say, ‘In the beginning, how he became criminal?’ is that a very intelligent question? What do you think? A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this question, ‘In the beginning, how he became a criminal?’ is that very intelligent question? Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning, at any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. You are prone to . . . As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. Immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven’t got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that.  

“So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal, now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, ‘How it began?’  

“ ‘How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me.’ That’s all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I’ve come to you, make treatment.’ That’s all.  

“Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That’s all. That is important thing.” 

Ali confessed to some confusion, despite the clarity of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s analogy. “I’m amazed that . . . When someone tastes something, a nice fruit, something pleasant, he remembers, appreciates that, even in material world. How could someone see God and come from a source as powerful and lovable as that, and then forget? How could he forget so easily and become so badly attached to this materialism? Why is it that we are so far? I know it’s in due course to my actions.” 

“That tendency is here,” Prabhupāda told him. “Because we are very small fragment of spiritual identity, that tendency is there.” He used his oft-repeated example: “The sparks sometimes fall down from the original fire. Then it is no more fire. It is fire, but it’s extinguished. The illumination is over. So we are small particles of God. God is big fire; we are small particles of God. So we are playing with the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down. That chance is there. The big fire does not fall. The big fire is always blazing. But the small fire, although it is possessing the same quality of fire, it may fall down. So we are small particle, very, very small, atomic portion God. Therefore we have got the tendency to be separated from the big fire, and then we begin our material body.” 

He gave another example, that of a famous lawyer’s son in Allahabad. “Ferolal Bannerji. He had two sons. One son became a good barrister like him, and another son became a car-wala, driving a car. The reason was that this son, a car-wala, he fell in love with a low-class woman, and he preferred to remain a car-wala. So she was living in a hut.  So out of love he also preferred that ‘I shall live with her, and I shall drive a car.’ So that is independence. He preferred. So that discrimination preference is there always. You can prefer a low-grade life out of your discretion. Nobody can check you. And by cultivation of knowledge, you can become a big man. The two tendencies are there. There is no stereotyped idea. Otherwise, he has no independence. Who was speaking of that owl? There is an animal, owl. He doesn’t like to remain in the sunlight. So that is also an animal. He is also eating, sleeping, mating, but he doesn’t like the sunlight. What can you do? So God has given him all facility to remain as an owl, in darkness. That is God’s kindness.” 

“So we can fall as far as we want,” Atreya Ṛṣi said. 

Prabhupāda took the positive view. “Fall or rise also. Why do you say fall? You can rise to the highest platform from the fallen condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That you are in a fallen condition, come to the highest platform and talk with God, play with God, dance with God. That is our opportunity. Now it is up to you to take it or not to take it. But our propaganda is this, you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then his life is successful. But if you don’t try to understand, that is your business. But we  are offering that here is a movement, you try to understand Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? But if you don’t like, who can force you? We are going country to country, door to door, town to town. What is our business? We are simply requesting that ‘You try to understand Kṛṣṇa.’ And Kṛṣṇa says, ‘As soon as you understand Me, you come to Me.’ Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. Now it is up to you. If you take theoretically, that ‘If by understanding Kṛṣṇa, I can go to the eternal, blissful spiritual life,’ why not try it? And if you inquire that, ‘All right, it is very good proposal. By going back to Kṛṣṇa, everything is solved. Yes, I’ll go. So what is the method?’ Then if I say, ‘Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa,’ where is the difficulty? Why you are so much determined not to do anything to go back to home, back to Godhead? That is your misfortune. If it is so easy, and it is the means of solving all the problems, why not try it? ‘All right, let me try in this life.’ Why don’t you do it? It is not a very difficult task. If you don’t do it, then you are misfortunate. Therefore Caitanya says, kono bhāgyavān jīva. This is the process to be adopted by the some fortunate persons. But they do not want to become fortunate. They want to remain unfortunate. That is the difficulty.” 

By his reactions it became clear that Ali was understanding that attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness was an end to material life all together. He asked if the ultimate goal then meant we do not come back.   

Prabhupāda confirmed this by asking why anyone would want to come back to a place of suffering. Did Ali think anyone in the material realm was happy?  

Ali replied that he had not seen anyone happy.  

Prabhupāda was pleased at his intelligence, and affirmed his observation. “Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to make many plans, satisfy so many ministers. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he’s attracted for the grain, but he’s looking this way, ‘Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me.’ So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible.” 

Ali wondered if there was some time limit, a deadline, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness had to be completed within from the time of commencement.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda assured him there was none, but still he pointed out that just as a seed after being planted takes some time to grow, similarly spiritual growth has its own time frame. But it was not the same as material time. “You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good, nice airplane. Still, you have to take ten hours to reach London. And mental speed, you can immediately, within a second, go to London. And spiritual speed, still more. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti, as soon as you give up the body you immediately go to Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual speed. Immediately. Not that so many miles, oh, Kṛṣṇa-loka is far, far above this material sky, then spiritual sky. No. The spiritual speed is so high that tyaktvā dehaṁ, as soon as you give up this body, immediately.” 

Ali’s impression of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s spiritual power and personal realization increased with the more he heard. He asked, “The master is usually on a totally different level. It is quite obvious, from the actions, the talks, the understanding and the experience. How close does one student get to the master? How closely does he understand the master? Or he could interrelate himself to the master?” 

Prabhupāda stressed the importance of association. Simply by associating with those on the spiritual platform, one could become fully spiritualized, like the iron rod that is placed into fire. Association was so important, he said, he was therefore opening centers, just like this one, all over the world. 

By this time more guests were arriving, mainly from the Indian community. Some members of the Indian Embassy arrived and Śrīla Prabhupāda returned to his room in order to better accommodate them all. 

Among the guests were Mr. and Mrs. Sahani, from the Punjab, and Mr. Sharma. A lively dialogue ensued with Śrīla Prabhupāda stressing the message of Bhagavad-gītā, and the need to simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa through his bona-fide representative. He cited Arjuna’s acceptance of Kṛṣṇa’s order, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava, as the real purpose of the Bhagavad-gītā—that we should come to the point of acting on Kṛṣṇa’s instructions. He had Pradyumna read out a string of verses, beginning from chapter eighteen verse sixty four, through to the last verse of the book. Pradyumna read out the Sanskrit and then the English translation: “Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion.” 

His guests agreed that the goal was surrender to Kṛṣṇa and clearly felt themselves to be devotees, but their devotion was revealed as relative and limited by Prabhupāda’s own perfect, absolute understanding and full surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the exchange that followed, almost the exact mundane, moralistic view of Arjuna’s surrender to Kṛṣṇa came forth from his guests that Śrīla Prabhupāda had described to us earlier. And when his guest voiced it, Prabhupāda showed us how to deal with it. 

“So understand Kṛṣṇa like Arjuna,” Prabhupāda told them. “Then Kṛṣṇa is there, Arjuna is there, and all victory is there.” 

Mrs. Sahani, who had done much of the talking, nodded. “Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa can become Arjuna?” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda told her, “He’s like Arjuna. What is Arjuna’s qualification? He surrendered, and he says kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. You become also Arjuna-like.” 

“And the victory is there,” Mrs. Sahani said. 

“Yes, then victory is there. But if one can avoid Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, then where is victory?” Prabhupāda said. 

Then Mr. Sahani spoke up, revealing his faulty judgmental view. “But we don’t want to go and fight like Arjuna; go out and kill people.” 

Both Prabhupāda’s ire and his voice raised. He asked sternly, “Why? If Kṛṣṇa orders, you must. Why don’t you like? That is your misfortune. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. That is following. You like or may not like. Arjuna did not like to fight, that’s a fact. Therefore whole Bhagavad-gītā is spoken to him. When he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he said, ‘Yes,’ kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. You cannot give your verdict. What Kṛṣṇa says, you have to do it. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You like or don’t like, that doesn’t matter. Just like a child. He likes or not likes, but what the parent says, he has to do. That is his success. If the child says, ‘Father, I don’t like to go to school,’ will the father agree? ‘No, you must go to school.’ And if he agrees, that is his benefit. Our liking, not liking, has no value. What Kṛṣṇa likes, we have to do it. Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. You have to act which is favorable to Kṛṣṇa. You cannot make your choice. What Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is bhakti.” 

In this way he strongly established the fundamental criterion of surrender to Kṛṣṇa, based on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and his visitors were well satisfied. At the end of the darśana they asked if Śrīla Prabhupāda could come into the city to hold another meeting for the Indians. Unfortunately it wasn’t possible because of Prabhupāda’s schedule and the short notice, but they all left after taking prasādam with smiles and gratitude.  

After eating puffed-rice and milk, Prabhupāda retired for his rest and massage, then rose in the middle of the night to continue on with his Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam commentaries. 

 

August 11th, 1976

Everyone observed a belated fast for Lord Balarāma’s appearance and held a small feast in the afternoon. Śrīla Prabhupāda took his regular meals though. His health is always bad and even to miss one meal would be very detrimental to his body.  

* * * 

In the early morning Śrīla Prabhupāda went to Niavaran park again and spent most of the hour sitting on a bench in one of the many small and pleasant groves. He began speaking about how one becomes qualified as a devotee. He told us that in India, in order to join the civil service, one has to pass a rigorous test before being allowed to accept a responsible post. “Similarly,” he said, “to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa, as He says, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu, one has to pass examination, severe test of examination. All the big, big devotees we see. Nārada Muni, before becoming Nārada Muni, he had to pass through severe examination, test. That chance is there in the human form of life, to pass the examination, test. But they are passing this human life with ordinary animal propensities. They are not trained up to pass the examination and be recognized by God. That civilization is lost, Vedic civilization, to prepare the human beings for passing the test, examination for being recognized by God.”  

He quoted the verse tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena ca damena ca from the Sixth Canto, saying that one must follow a strict life of austerity if one wants to pass the test. 

“Beginning tapasya, austerity. Brahmacārya, celibacy. Śamena damena, controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Tyāgena, by renunciation. Satya-śaucābhyāṁ, by following truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena vā, by practicing yoga, yama-niyama. These are the different items of being qualified. But all these things can be done by one stroke, kevalayā bhaktyā, by engaging oneself in devotion,  vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. One becomes qualified by one stroke of bhakti to Vāsudeva. Just like the sunrise immediately dissipates the fog. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.  

“In the Kali-yuga, this one item of bhakti can make one perfectly fit candidate to pass the examination. What is this nonsense life? There is no tapasya, no spiritual culture, simply like cats and dogs. Last night I was reading. Vāmanadeva created a planet, Sutala, in which Viśvakarmā was ordered to construct big houses, palaces, better than in the heavenly planet. And these rascals are going and seeing simply rocks and sand.” 

Atreya Ṛṣi asked him if it was true that Kṛṣṇa tests us every day. 

“No, just like if you want responsible post,” Prabhupāda told him, “then there is question of test. If you want to become a vagabond, remain vagabond. Where is question of test?” 

“No, for devotees,” Atreya Ṛṣi clarified. 

“Ah, for devotees, there is test,” Prabhupāda said. “We see from the devotee’s life, Prahlāda Mahārāja, how much severe test he had to pass through. Bali Mahārāja, Nārada Muni.” 

“And the most advanced the devotee is, the more severe the test is . . .” Atreya Ṛṣi said. 

Śrīla Prabhupāda reassured him. “No, after you pass the examination, there is no more test. But before coming to the post of recognized devotee, Kṛṣṇa tests very severely. That one has to pass.” 

I recalled one of his Bhāgavatam purports where he stated that māyā is there to test the sincerity of the candidate and Prabhupāda continued, “Yes, we see from the life of Bali Mahārāja, how he was put into difficulty. Even his spiritual master cursed him. If a devotee is put into test and still he remains in his determination, then he’s passed. That is very natural. There is a word, ‘acid test,’ for ascertaining real gold—the acid test one has to pass to become real gold.” 

Navayauvana asked if passing the test was dependent on one’s faith in Kṛṣṇa so Śrīla Prabhupāda responded by asking what he meant by faith. 

“Conviction,” Atreya Ṛṣi said. 

“What is that conviction? Describe it,” Prabhupāda asked. 

“That Kṛṣṇa is the controller,” Dayānanda volunteered. 

“Kṛṣṇa is controller,” Prabhupāda stated as a fact. “You may have faith or no faith, that doesn’t matter.” 

After Navayauvana and I both attempted to reply, Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the definition he was looking for. “Faith means that you are meant for giving some service to Kṛṣṇa. You should stick to that service, that path, in spite of all impediments. That is the passing of test. Generally, just like we are meant for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there may be severe test, but still we shall remain determined. That is wanted. There may be so many impediments, punishment, still you should do that. That is test. Not that as soon as there is some difficulty I give it up. There may be severe test, but still we shall not give it up. We must go on. That is determination.” 

“Passing the test means executing the order of the spiritual master,” Navayauvana said. 

Prabhupāda agreed. “Yes, that is spiritual life. One has to take order from the spiritual master and execute it, despite all impediments. That is determination.”  

Prabhupāda sat back, taking in the broad view of the city from the terraced hillside, noting the numerous park sweepers who drifted curiously by, more to take in our little party’s activities than to do their own. Prabhupāda inquired from Atreya Ṛṣi what their pay might be. Atreya said about  800 rupees a month.  

“Hundred dollars,” Prabhupāda nodded. “What is the average expenditure here?” 

Atreya Ṛṣi said it was quite expensive; they were spending 8–10,000 rupees a month. “Just for simple devotee food, per person, about 500 rupees per month.” 

Prabhupāda then began to list off the various levels of costs and wages in India during the 1930’s. “Oh. In India, now 200 rupees per month. And it has increased very recently. In 1930, we were paying servant twelve to fourteen rupees per month, and they were satisfied. With food, six rupees. And without food, twelve rupees, fourteen. In the hotel also they were charging six rupees; means third-class hotel, not first class, for cooking dahl, vegetables. First-class rice, six rupees per month. Dahl, twelve annas [one anna=six paisa] for kg., flour, five annas for two and a half kgs. And from 1942, all of a sudden the price increased, artificially. Milk, two annas per kg.—now three rupees, four rupees. First-class ghee, one rupee per kg.” 

Ordinary clerks received thirty rupees per month, head clerks sixty, officers between 1–200 and high court judges, 4,000 rupees. He said that before the British rule things were even cheaper. Inflation was deliberately caused by the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. He put the prices up astronomically and then advertised free food in the army in order to force Indian men to join and help them fight the second world war.  

Atreya Ṛṣi also took some practical managerial guidance. One elderly Indian devotee, who had initially been part of the team of managers when our Vṛndāvana temple opened, had recently written to him asking if he could come to Teheran. Atreya Ṛṣi wondered if this was a good idea. “Śrīla Prabhupāda, there’s our Praṇava dāsa, in Vṛndāvana. He, as you remember, he had some difficulties there.” 

“He creates the difficulty,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said somberly. “He came to Vṛndāvana as retired life, but instead of that he wanted to make some personal profit. That is his difficulty.” 

“So, does he have any sincerity?” Atreya Ṛṣi asked. 

“No, I don’t think,” Prabhupāda said. 

“He has no sincerity. We should not encourage him to come here.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda shook his head. “No, no. He’s after sense gratification. He requested you?” 

“Yes.” 

“What he’ll do?” Prabhupāda asked. 

“Well,” Atreya Ṛṣi said, “I thought that he’s a devotee and I should engage him, we should engage him here. But of course, if he’s not sincere . . .” 

“He’s trying to get such opportunities,” Prabhupāda advised. “He’s requesting so many, ‘Take me here, take me there.’ ” 

“So I should not do it because we will have problem. We would be in anxiety here.” 

“He came to Vṛndāvana for the purpose of devotion,” Prabhupāda affirmed, “but he had some other motive. To take advantage for sense gratification. Why he wants to come here? He requested similarly Bhagavān.” 

I knew him from when I was temple commander in Vṛndāvana last year. “He wanted to go to Detroit.” 

“Detroit,” Śrīla Prabhupāda repeated. “Everyone is trying to take some advantage.” 

Atreya Ṛṣi smiled ironically. “Everybody thinks America is everything. A heavenly planet.” 

But Prabhupāda’s response was sober. “Yes, for India it is heavenly planet, certainly.” 

Atreya Ṛṣi said, “I’m sure there is always a lot of people who gather around American devotees.” 

“To exploit,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said, straightforwardly. 

Atreya Ṛṣi  nodded. “They want money, they want this, they want benefit, some sort of, this I can see.” 

* * * 

After about an hour we returned to the temple for guru-pūjā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class. The verse described how Kardama Muni kept his mind fixed on Lord Viṣṇu, and in his short talk Śrīla Prabhupāda gave a few good examples of how one can do one’s work and still remain thinking of Kṛṣṇa. “In South India there is a class of professional dancer. They take a big jug on the head and without any ring, it is kept as it is. The head is shaved, but they are so practiced to keep the balance that the pot does not fall down. It remains exactly. This is an art—they will dance, and the pot on the head will never fall down, keeping the balance.  

“So by practice it is possible. There are many professional vendors, they keep their basket on the head and taking a child, going and canvassing, ‘We have got this fruit.’ It never falls down. They are keeping the balance. So this is a crude example that everything can be done by practice. There is another example Rūpa Gosvāmī gives, that a woman who has got an extra lover besides the husband. So she’s always thinking of that lover although she’s busy with household affairs. That means if you want somebody very seriously, you can think of him always, twenty-four hours, in spite of your being engaged in so many duties. It is possible. So we have to practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.” 

He told us that although in the spiritual world we do not have to work to maintain our existence, here in the material world we do, yet still we have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. His words were pertinent because as soon as he finished his lecture Atreya Ṛṣi, Dayānanda and the others would be going out to engage in seemingly mundane jobs. So he cited another example to encourage them that what they are doing is actually spiritual. “Because a devotee has nothing to do with material things. Even if he works for maintenance of the body, that is not material. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura who was magistrate. But it is not for a magistrate to write so many books—siddhānta-purṇaṁ. So he was in a different transcendental platform. So that is possible. The mind may be absorbed in Kṛṣṇa’s thought, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ,  tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. That is possible by practice.” 

* * * 

As Śrīla Prabhupāda translates and comments on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Pradyumna prabhu edits the Sanskrit. Today while Śrīla Prabhupāda took his massage Pradyumna came in with some questions on the Eighth Canto, chapter twenty two. He is a good Sanskritist, but Prabhupāda sometimes complains that he does not work hard enough. He is always lagging behind whereas Prabhupāda wants him to work ahead of himself, finishing the basic translation and word-for-word translations before he gets to them. This would alleviate Śrīla Prabhupāda’s work load so that he can concentrate on his purports. But so far Pradyumna has not managed to do it.  

Pradyumna and Arundhatī seem to be doing a good job of training their son Aniruddha though. This morning Śrīla Prabhupāda was on the veranda after breakfast. Aniruddha was running around downstairs in the garden and, as he played, he was singing “Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare” and “Jaya Prabhupāda, Jaya Prabhupāda!” Śrīla Prabhupāda raised his eyebrows and tipped his head towards the sound. “Just see,” he said, smiling broadly. “Although he is alone he is chanting.” He commented how fortunate Aniruddha was that his child’s enthusiasm was being so effortlessly dovetailed into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. 

Prabhupāda has also complemented Nandarāṇī on her efforts to home school her two daughters, one of whom was in the Los Angeles gurukula when we visited there in June. She teaches them Bhagavad-gītā and engages them in helping to clean the altar and other devotional activities and Prabhupāda has approved. His main concern is that the children become Kṛṣṇa conscious, holding that as the real standard of education. 

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s capacity for speaking about Kṛṣṇa seems as inexhaustible as the Lord Himself. This evening’s darśana again extended over several hours. Although the formal morning classes have been brief, he is showering his mercy on the devotees through lengthy conversations. He is giving them ample opportunity to interact, answering all possible doubts, drawing out from them every objection to Kṛṣṇa consciousness they might encounter, and defeating them with logic, śāstra, wit and wisdom. He is always enlivened to preach and, despite his declining health, he somehow always seems to find the energy to speak and give spiritual guidance to others. For the few devotees here in this isolated corner of the globe he is making himself as freely available as he can.  

Parivrājakācārya Mahārāja brought along his friends Kami Fazel and his wife Shahrezad, who have close contacts with the Royal family. And some Indian guests from Gujarat and Punjab also attended. It was a very lively evening with Śrīla Prabhupāda in top form, speaking strongly and convincingly that the pursuit of God consciousness is the only business of human life. It is the purpose of his movement to teach this, he told them. “So our, this philosophy is to educate the human being to know about God. That’s all. We have no other business. We’re writing books on this subject matter, distributing them, educating them. We are creating preachers who can educate. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Others are denying the human rights. We are giving the human rights. We are so benevolent.” 

He gave the example of a child who should inherit the father’s money. But one party tries to hide the money and another party tries to give it to the child. He asked Nandarāṇī who was the better friend.  

“The one who is giving or trying to give,” she answered. 

“Yes,” Prabhupāda said. “Similarly, a human being has got the right to understand God. So one party is denying, the another party is trying to give you. So who is better friend?” 

“The one who is giving you the knowledge,” Nandarāṇī replied. 

“Yes,” Prabhupāda repeated. “So we are the best friend of the whole world because we are trying to give him the rightful position. Others are misleading. They are enemies, they are not friend. In the name of friends, they are enemies. Vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. Therefore Vaiṣṇava is so big. One has got the right to understand God and become perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead and solve all problems. That is being denied, this rascal civilization.” 

Once again he attacked the atheistic scientists for their ideas that everything simply came about by accident or chance, without any cause. He had Harikeśa Swami read out verse 16.8 from Bhagavad-gītā: “They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust.” 

Then Prabhupāda gave a brilliant analysis to show that even by this reasoning nothing could exist without a cause. “This is their accident. Accidentally there is sex desire and something is produced. Still, they cannot say causeless. Because here it is said kāma-haitukam, the lusty desire was there. So therefore the lusty desire is the cause. You cannot say causeless. That is not possible. Aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ, two, man and woman, meets, aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ. Para, apara. But kāma-haitukam. So you cannot say causeless. Then you have to search out wherefrom this lusty desire came. That is kāraṇa. Find out one cause after another, another, another. Then you’ll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. If you go on searching out, you have to find out this cause. Because you are saying the lusty desire is the cause, nothing else. But if you are a philosopher, then you must find out wherefrom the lusty desire comes.” 

Harikeśa Mahārāja, who Śrīla Prabhupāda often uses as a foil for his arguments against the scientists, raised an objection. “It comes from a certain combination of material ingredients.” 

“That’s all right,” Prabhupāda said, “but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you’ll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa’s dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ. Aham ādir hi devānāṁ. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. The kama also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. ‘Whatever you have got, that is from Me.’ You cannot say the kāma is independent. That’s not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa.”  

“You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam. Wherefrom this kāma came? Kṛṣṇa answers that. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ. Kṛṣṇa is situated in both the boy’s and the girl’s heart. So Kṛṣṇa is giving, ‘You wanted to enjoy, now here is opportunity, you take it.’ Then Kṛṣṇa becomes cause. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam, ‘You wanted, you have got, here is. You wanted a young boy—here is.’ Therefore He’s sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam.”  

 I joined in, having also been engaged by Śrīla Prabhupāda in numerous debates on the subject. “They say that it is causeless, there’s nothing beyond it.” 

“No, how it can be?” Prabhupāda replied. He used some simple logic. “Suppose matter. Now this wood is dead matter. Wherefrom it has come?” 

“Well, the . . .” 

Prabhupāda cut me off, making me follow his line of reasoning. “Not ‘well . . .’ First of all, study this. Wherefrom this wood has come?” 

“From a tree.” 

“Yes. And wherefrom the tree has come?”  

“From the ground.” 

“That’s all right.” 

I tried to make my point again. “So the material elements are already there and . . .” 

“Bīja, bīja,” Prabhupāda emphasized. “Bījāham sarva-bhūtānāṁ. You sow the seed, there will come out a tree, and from that tree there will be big trunk and you cut the tree, then you get wood.” 

“That’s all right, that’s agreed,” I accepted. 

“But that is real, that is intelligence, that wherefrom the tree has come,” Prabhupāda said. 

“But this has been going on eternally,” Harikeśa Swami said, with me adding, “But the material elements are there, and they just evolve into different shapes and forms.” 

“That’s all right, but the original creation is there,” Prabhupāda insisted. 

“No, no, it has eternally been going on,” Harikeśa insisted back. 

Prabhupāda patiently repeated his point that there cannot be anything without a cause. “Eternally is going on, but the process is here. Eternally this man is born, that does not mean you were not born by your father. Eternally father gives birth to a child, that’s a fact. But there must be father. The father is the cause. Anything law, that is going on eternally. Nature’s law is going on eternally. That’s a fact. We are talking of the process. Things are going on eternally, there is no doubt about it. The process is also eternal, but we have to study the process.” 

“But that’s their argument,” I repeated. “That the process is just happening by itself, there’s no father. They say the process is that the elements are just there . . .” 

“And there is no father,” Śrīla Prabhupāda interjected with sarcastic humor. “And he has no father, the rascal who is talking? He has no father? Immediately beat him with shoes!” Everyone laughed at his humor and insurmountable logic as he went on, “The rascal—you are talking, you have got your father. Beat him with shoes immediately on his mouth!” 

Shahrezad, who had said that she accepted there must be God, but had trouble accepting the specific details presented to her by the devotees, asked what Śrīla Prabhupāda thought about human endeavor in science. Prabhupāda said it was correct as far as it went practically. It was on the hypothetical side that he found fault. “But if you simply theorize, and when I say that you now practically prove, you say ‘Wait millions of years,’ that is nonsense; that is not science. That is nonsense. The observation and experiment. Simply observing is not science. And observing, this chemical, this chemical is being combined, then it can be . . . But when you put into experiment, and practically show, then it is accepted. They say that life is generated by combination of chemicals. So now show me by experiment—then it is science. Otherwise it is nonsense.” 

Shahrezad was trying to fathom why people were so absorbed in material life that they could not perceive the presence of God.  

Prabhupāda told her that people were being misled and apart from that they simply had no eyes to see that they are factually suffering. “They are being slapped both ways and kicked with shoes, but they have no eyes to see. Going on. So much trouble, so many problems, that you cannot drive even on the street.” He gave a practical example, that although the new house Atreya Ṛṣi wanted him to see was only a few miles from the present location, still he had to wait three days before going because otherwise the city was too congested with traffic.  

Nandarāṇī spoke up. “I think her question is, is this God’s plan or our plan?” 

“It is not God’s plan, it is your plan,” Prabhupāda said. “Whatever you make, it will cause inconvenience. And if you follow God’s plan, you’ll make progress. Where is in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said by Kṛṣṇa that you make motorcars like this? He has never said.” 

I was thinking about last night’s darśana and the confusion displayed by Mr. Sahani in understanding God’s actual role. “Like that man last night was saying not even a blade of grass can move without God’s sanction. So they think because God sanctions . . .” 

“Yes, that is so many times explained,” Prabhupāda said, repeating the story of how he had allowed his young son to touch the moving fan just because the boy insisted. “So this sanction was given, ‘Touch it,’ reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, ‘Touch again?’ ‘No.’ So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that ‘Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again.’ Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won’t . . . This is obstinacy. Dog’s mentality. The father has come personally. Now we have experimented everything—karma, jñāna, yoga, this, that, all nonsense. ‘Now I say . . . ’ It is said most confidential. Sarva guhyataraṁ. ‘Better give up this job. Surrender to Me, come back to Me.’ So sanction was there, certainly. Without sanction they cannot do it. God created this. That is sanction. You wanted material world to enjoy. ‘All right, do it, here is material world. Take as much petrol as you like and drive motorcar and create accident. Do, go on. But now I am giving you good advice, that give up this business, come back to Me.’ This is sanction. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ—that is mattaḥ, ‘from Me.’ But he’s insisting, so therefore sanction—‘All right, let him experiment.’ That independence God never touches. 

“So he has got independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. So he is creating problem. Still, Kṛṣṇa coming, that ‘You have created simply problems. What you have gained? Better give up this all nonsense, come to Me.’ This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are intelligent, they are taking up. And those who are still remaining rascal, they are going on. That is our choice, if we want to be intelligent or rascal. Practically. What we have gained by this so-called material advancement? They have created problem, different problems. That’s all. But still, we think that it is progress.  

“Without God’s sanction you cannot do anything, that’s a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, ‘My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house.’ And the householder also praying to God, ‘My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen.’ Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder. And both of them are prayers. So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God’s position. Because both of them praying, ‘Give me the facility.’ And īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe ‘rjuna tiṣṭhati—He is situated in everyone’s heart and there are so many petitions, and He has to deal with them. That is God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.” 

“But sometimes things happen that people don’t want to happen,” I said. 

“That is their business,” Prabhupāda explained. “They want or they don’t want, that’s all. Two business. Because their mind is not fixed up, they have got two businesses—‘Don’t do it,’ ‘Do it.’ That’s all. There is no third business. Sometimes accepting—‘Do it’—and again rejecting, ‘No, no, don’t do it.’ This is material world. Saṅkalpa vikalpa. So he has to fix up his mind. ‘I have done so much “Don’t do it” and “Do it.” Now I shall decide to do only what Kṛṣṇa says.’ Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. ‘Yes, now I’ll do it. What You say, I’ll do it.’ Then his life is perfect.  

“Unless he comes to the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa has to give him sanction, ‘Yes, do it.’ ‘Yes, do not do it.’ What can be done? But He says, ‘Give up this business, “Don’t do it” and “Do it.” Simply do what I say. Then you’ll be happy.’ Unless we agree to that point, we have to continue this material life, life after life, and suffer.” 

Nandarāṇī asked about saṅkalpa-vikalpa. “This is there as long as we have our independence, though. Even as devotees, that accepting and rejecting? That is there even in devotees.” 

“Because a non-devotee has become a devotee,” Prabhupāda replied, “he is practicing how to simply accept Kṛṣṇa’s orders. But by his previous habit he’s still engaged in ‘Do it’ and ‘Don’t do it.’ Just like this fan is running. You take out the switch, the current is stopped, but it’s still running, at least three, four rounds. So similarly, if you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that current of ‘Do it’ or ‘Do not,’ is stopped. Because you have agreed to do only what Kṛṣṇa says. If you have actually decided like that, then you are free. There is no more current of ‘Do it’ or ‘Not do it.’ But because you were habituated in your past life to this ‘Do it’ or ‘Not do it,’ sometimes it is found. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ śaṣvad bhavati dharmātmā. He has got little practice of these nonsense things. But if he sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be stopped very soon. That is the only remedy. So a devotee means he has taken vow before the spiritual master, before the fire, before . . . If he sticks to his principle, then he’s free. Even though some bad habits found due to his past behavior, that will be stopped. But he must stick. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Kṛṣṇa consciousness must continue. Everything will be corrected. And if there is slackness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then again he’ll fall down.  

“That I was telling this morning, that if you have determination, māyā will put forward so many impediments, and with all sufferings, if he remains determined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is success. A man is habituated to smoke. He has given up, has promised no more smoking. Just like our students. Now he’s put amongst some friends, they are smoking. But he has bad habit, he’s thinking, ‘Why not smoke?’ And if the friends offer, ‘It is friends. Who is going to see? Yes.’ That is possible. But if he comes to his sense again, ‘Oh, what I have done?’ If he repents, ‘I promised it before my spiritual master, before God, before fire. Now I’m doing this?’ that repentance will help him. And if he thinks that ‘I’m doing it. My spiritual master is not here, let me fall to it,’ then he is finished. Then he is finished. If he repents for the wrong he has done, then he’s excused. Otherwise finished.” 

“Is there any limit to the number of chances that he has?” I asked. 

Śrīla Prabhupāda was very clear. “Yes, there is limit. Once, twice, thrice. If you make four times, then it is extricated: ‘Get out rascal, cheating.’ ” 

He repeated that ultimately it is up to us. If we want to stop our suffering, Kṛṣṇa’s instructions are there to help. 

“But unless one is getting Kṛṣṇa’s instruction, he is forced to go on,” Navayauvana observed. 

“Yes,” Prabhupāda told him. “You cannot do anything without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there, māyā is there. They’ll take care. If you agree to be taken care by Kṛṣṇa, then you are happy. And if you don’t agree, you will be taken care by māyā. You go on suffering. In either case you are not independent. That verse is very important—yathecchasi tathā kuru.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda had me read out the verse and he emphasized that it was up to us to use our intelligence to deliberate and make our choice. A line from the purport caught my attention and I read it out. “You say here, ‘Before surrendering one is free to deliberate on this subject as far as the intelligence goes.’ ” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda expanded on the meaning of intelligence. “Yes. God has given you intelligence. Now you deliberate. But if you . . . A devotee, without using my intelligence, I surrender. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā. Immediately you become the greatest mahātmā. If you simply believe in Kṛṣṇa, ‘What my nonsense intelligence? What Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do—Bas.’ Your life is perfect. And if you think still that ‘I am more intelligent [than] Kṛṣṇa, let me deliberate and consider,’ then you remain rascal. You cannot be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya, you take it. That is real intelligence.” 

The discussion went on for a while longer until Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu brought in some refreshing watermelon, grown in our own garden. He distributed slices first to Śrīla Prabhupāda and then to all the guests. Prabhupāda appreciated it, dipping it into a little salt to accentuate the flavor. As we all ate, before bringing the meeting to a close, Prabhupāda engaged in a light chat with one of the Indian guests, who, like many older Indians brought up in British India, spoke perfect “Queen’s English.” He was from Afghanistan. Hearing this Prabhupāda remembered an old childhood friend of his. “In my young age I had one Afghani friend, he belonged to the royal family. Some of their brothers were banished in India. So the family were staying in Allahabad. His name was Sen, Sen Adband, like that. So he was my friend. He was coming to me and we were talking. Amar Lakhana, his brother, he belonged to the royal family.” 

“That’s right, that must be before 1936 though.” 

“Yes, I am talking between 1925-30. So this same friend was coming to me and we were talking.”  

Prabhupāda impressed his guest by giving a little of the history of Afghanistan. “This Afghanistan, when they were Hindus, the King of Kandahar, his daughter was married to the Pāṇḍavas. Gāndhārī. Gāndhārī—Kandhari. Gāndhārī was the daughter of Kandahar king.” 

 

August 12th, 1976

Rather than go to the park this morning, Prabhupāda decided to sit in the spacious garden. Apart from the small lawn there are eight Pipal trees (tall but skinny due to not getting enough water) around the border, some bloomless rose bushes, a Cedar tree and a small collection of fruit trees—apple, pear and cherry. At the back there is even a small swimming pool. Enjoying the early morning sun and the quiet atmosphere, Prabhupāda commented that it was as nice as the park, and better from the point of view that here we were not disturbed by outsiders. 

He pursued last night’s topic, that there must be an ultimate cause, with Harikeśa Swami sticking to his atheist’s “There is lust and lust only” stance. Prabhupāda retold the anecdote of the knife verses scissors that he used in Māyāpur in March to illustrate the obstinacy of the scientists. The man supporting the scissors theory was thrown in the water by his stronger opponent. He was drowning, yet as he disappeared beneath the surface his hand came up with his fingers moving together like a pair of scissors.  

Yet in another sense Śrīla Prabhupāda agreed that lust was the basis for everything in the material world. Jñānagamya prabhu had pointed out that lust is a perverted expression of love. “Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love,” he said, “and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.” 

And Prabhupāda agreed with that. “Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.” 

Harikeśa Mahārāja grinned. “Then you agree with me?” 

“Yes, you are right,” Jñānagamya replied. “But you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.” 

Declaring Harikeśa Swami’s atheist again to be obstinate, Śrīla Prabhupāda brought up another class of men who do not understand. “It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is . . . They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say ‘Why you are connected with illicit sex?’ ‘What is the wrong there? It is love.’ They say it is love. Rascals, they are all . . . These sahajiyās, you’ll find most of them illiterate. Not a single of them is even literate, they are so low class. Most of them they come to Vṛndāvana . . . Why Vṛndāvana? There are many other places. Their aim is woman and money. Just like these svāmīs and yogis, they come. Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a svāmī, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That’s all.” 

Prabhupāda’s enjoyment of the garden was self-evident and as he took pleasure in his natural surroundings he compared the natural ambience favorably against the complex arrangements of city living. Indicating the house he said, “That building is costly, but we have left that building, we have come here. And this is costlier? Nature’s way of? . . . In the room, to make us comfortable you have to run on the fan. Here we don’t require any fan. So what is the advantage?” 

“Well, if it rains, then we’ll go back inside,” I pointed out. 

“And if your electricity fails, you’ll go to hell,” Śrīla Prabhupāda quipped, raising laughter all around. “This is no argument. That is obstinate rascal’s argument. That one . . .  they were eating yogurt. Everyone said, ‘Oh, very first-class, nice yogurt.’ So there was the obstinate rascal, he has to find out some fault. He said, ‘Yes, it is very nice, but if we keep it three days it will be bad.’ He’s not thinking of the present, but he has to criticize it, that if you keep it three days it will become bad. That is all right, but what you are tasting now, talk of that. When there will be rain, you’ll have to go in the room—this is no argument. This is obstinate rascaldom.” 

“But we have to plan for the future,” I said. 

But Śrīla Prabhupāda wasn’t having any of it. “Future you cannot plan. That is another obstinate rascaldom. Future is not in your hand. They are planning so many things for future, but it is being baffled. So many schemes there are. In India there is a planning commission, after independence. So whatever they did, all failure. All failure. And now it is chaos. That Gulzarilal Nanda you know? He was one of the prominent member of the planning commission. He was very important member in the central government, Home member, planning commission, president and so on, so on. Nowadays he is loitering on the street, coming me to talk as ordinary man. You have seen? You were giving me massage on the roof and he was sitting?” 

I recalled Prabhupāda’s meetings with him in November 1975 when I first joined the party in Delhi. “Yes. He’s just trying to make some name and fame now by becoming a pious man. He was prime minister for about ten days.” 

“Yes, for a few days. He was a very prominent member in the cabinet, and now see. So planning, you make so many plans, but it requires sanction. That planning is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. In this way, there is a verse, that every parent is planning how his child will be grown nice, educated, but it becomes different. Every father, mother plan that ‘My child should be like this.’ But he is becoming hippie. When there is somebody diseased, rich man, he is planning to save him, best physician, best medicine supplied, but he’s dying. So what is the value of your planning? Your planning is . . . That’s all right, that’s your duty. But it requires the sanction of some higher authority. Otherwise useless. That is your position. That is practically going on.” 

Saying that our plan should be to simply accept Kṛṣṇa’s plan, which is approved and very easy, Prabhupāda made a proposal. “Take any words of Kṛṣṇa, it is very easy. What is your problem, first of all? Just consider, whether Kṛṣṇa answers it. First of all, propose what is your problem.” 

“Well, my problem is that I have to have somewhere to live and I have to get something to eat,” I said. 

“Yes, that Kṛṣṇa solves. Yes, Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni: produce food grains. You have to work because it is material world. You cannot sit idly. Even if you are a very strong tiger, you don’t expect that animals will come and enter your mouth. You have to work for it. This is the world. Na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. Suppose a lion . . . He’s the king of the forest. And if he says, ‘It is my order, I’ll sleep here and all the animals may come in my mouth.’ The animals will urine on his face. ‘Yes, we shall pass urine on your face. We are not going to accept your order.’ Practical, everyone has to work. This is the third nature. Avidya-karma-samjñānya. Because here everyone is under ignorance, the punishment is he has to work for his living condition. Work is not very pleasing. It is very troublesome. But you have to work. Therefore we see practically that countries who are working very diligently, they are materially prosperous. Europe, America, they work very diligently, hard, and they have got material prosperity. And the Eastern countries, they are not working, intelligent. From material point of view. From spiritual point of view that is another thing.” 

“So all I have to do is just make some working arrangement,” I said. 

“No, that work is recommended,” Prabhupāda said. “Your question is how Kṛṣṇa is giving you instruction. Just like food, Kṛṣṇa says you produce anna. Kṛṣṇa never said that you produce tire tubes. Never says.” 

“But the same example, in the West, we weren’t so materially prosperous until we started industrialism. The prosperity was not there until we started our big factories.” 

“No, no. Just like in India, there was no industry at all. Until the British period, there was no industry. Not a single. Even in Muhammadan period there was no industry, and they were happy. The Mohammedans also did not know how to start industry. It is Western imported, larger scale industry. Cottage industry was there.” 

I gave one of the standard arguments that Westerners use to support their material endeavors. “Such a high standard of living, that was not available to as many people as there is now.” 

Prabhupāda was dismissive. “What is that higher standard? When there was no industry, in India, there was full of gold, jewelries. And now there is plastic.” 

“Yes, but now there’s TV!” Harikeśa Swami piped up. 

Prabhupāda pulled a face. “TV, yes.” 

“How can you enjoy without TV?” Harikeśa asked. 

“Yes,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said sardonically. “How can you waste your time?” 

Navayauvana said people say they need TV because they work so hard all day that they need to forget. 

“Why should you work? If you have to forget, why should you take such nonsense things that you have to forget again? Why not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?” Śrīla Prabhupāda said. He had already called our attention to Aniruddha, who was happily playing by himself and singing Hare Kṛṣṇa, and he used his example again. “Even the child does not forget. He’s chanting. Take such things that you’ll enjoy. The more you do not forget, you more enjoy. Why should you take up something that you have to forget? This is rascal.” 

He told another little anecdote to make his point. “There is a story like this. A man is sitting. His friend came, ‘Why you are sitting idly?’ ‘What shall I do?’ ‘Work.’ ‘Why shall I work?’ ‘You’ll get money.’ ‘What shall I do with the money?’ ‘Then you’ll be able to sit peacefully and eat.’ ‘I’m doing that. I’m already doing that.’  

“If that is the ultimate end,” he asked us, “that I shall peacefully sit down and eat, I am doing that. Why shall I go and work?” 

When I said that variety was the spice of life, Śrīla Prabhupāda agreed variety was there, but he said it was a question of taste. Some like to eat prasādam and some like to go to the brothel.  

“Well,” I added, “sometimes we want to sit in a garden like this and sometimes we like to be inside, and other times we like to go out to the movies.” 

“I don’t go out,” Prabhupāda replied. “We do not go to the movies or to the restaurant. It is different taste. Therefore it is calculated three kinds of men—sattvic, rajasic, tamasic—their tendencies are different.” 

Navayauvana said that the karmīs can not understand why a devotee doesn’t want to go to the cinema and Prabhupāda replied that there were so many items. “They do not smoke, they do not drink, they do not go to cinema.” 

“We’re as good as dead,” I said laughing. 

And Prabhupāda smiled. “Yes.” 

Harikeśa Mahārāja, dropping his representation of the materialist, asked a practical question about his own inclinations to serve. He admitted that the natural, simple life in the country did not appeal to him. “What happens with all these people who, like for example, myself, I can’t live on a farm?” 

“That does not make you unfit,” Prabhupāda told him.  

“I mean I was born in a city, raised in a city, and feel very good when I’m in a city, but when I’m on a farm, I’m very disturbed.” 

“Rajasic,” Prabhupāda told him. “You have got rajasic. So that means your mode of nature is rajasic. There are three kinds of—sattvic, rajasic, tamasic.” 

“But what are we going to do with all these kind of people?” Harikeśa wanted to know.  

Prabhupāda’s reply was interesting. “That is already there, three kinds of propensities. So you belong to the rajasic, that’s all. So it can be conquered by sattvic.” 

I followed his comment to its logical conclusion. “So we should all aim towards leaving the cities? If everyone becomes sattvic . . .” 

And Prabhupāda didn’t deny it. Referring to our villa with its spacious grounds he said, “That tendency is there, why these bungalows are here? They do not like to live in the city. They are paying so high rent. Why? The inner tendency is to live like this, with trees, with lawn.”  

* * * 

As we talked in the garden Atreya Ṛṣi came to request initiation for his two Iranian bhaktas. Śrīla Prabhupāda agreed, and thus, right after guru-pūjā, in the first initiations performed within Iran, Śrīla Prabhupāda bestowed harināma on his two Muslim disciples in a very informal exchange, devoid of ceremony. He simply sat in a chair as they came forward, and with Atreya Ṛṣi’s help, they pledged to follow the four regulative principles. Mustafa was renamed Vallabha dāsa and Hussein, Śrīdhara dāsa. There was no fire sacrifice, nor did he request that they shave their heads, although he did ask them to shave their faces and cut their hair very short. He simply handed them their japa beads and then gave a short class on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.22.22.  

* * * 

At 11 a.m. Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu returned from work to take Śrīla Prabhupāda to see the house he is purchasing in the central part of Teheran. Before we journeyed there Śrīla Prabhupāda discussed with Atreya Ṛṣi some ideas he had for starting businesses that would help the householders earn their incomes independent from the karmīs. He offered to give him his toothpaste formula, and complemented Harikeśa Swami for remembering the formula—menthol, pine oil, camphor, oil of wintergreen, glycerin, ground yellow mustard seeds and powdered salt—and he now suggested nīm powder as a substitute for calcium carbonate. He also told Atreya how he had cured a cut received from the car crash in Mauritius last year simply by applying a paste of nīm leaves cooked in ghee, and suggested that nīm could be imported from India. “In our Society,” he said, “it is not that we are simply sannyāsīs. We have got brahmacārīs, we have got gṛhasthas. Gṛhasthas should be provided with some profession, business, so that they can earn very nicely. That is a good idea.” 

Prabhupāda had me bring out some of the nīm paste that Pālikā had made in America to show Atreya. Unfortunately it had gone off because, Prabhupāda surmised, Pālikā had used water in the cooking. Harikeśa Mahārāja said that when he had made the first batch last November, it lasted a long time because it was simply nīm leaves cooked in ghee for about three hours. Atreya Ṛṣi asked if it must be cooked in ghee, or could some other oil be used. Prabhupāda suggested Vaseline, rejecting Harikeśa’s idea of olive oil. And despite his previous comments about Praṇava dāsa’s self-interest, he thought of a way of positively engaging him. 

“And you can, if you want to engage him, if he wants to do something, that Praṇava, let him supply nīm leaves, dry, from Vṛndāvana. If he actually wants some money, let him do some business. Let him collect all nīm leaves and give him twenty percent profit. Suppose he collects nīm and dries, and then packs it and dispatch. Some arrangement he may make some profit. Honest business. Not that by cheating get something. That is not good. If he wants money, let him take.” 

Prabhupāda decided to take his massage after his return from visiting the house, and before we left, Atreya Ṛṣi informed him of a nice gift the devotees had for him. 

“So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have, this temple has some dakṣiṇā for you. How would you like me to do it? Today is Thursday. Would you like it in what form? Would you like us to invest it for you here, or give you the cash?” 

“If you give me the interest, eighteen percent, I’ll utilize it for Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana,” Prabhupāda told him. “Purchase one small book, like passbook. So you become my banker, I deposit with you. You receive it and send the interest, that’s all. I make you banker. That’s all. There is no botheration. You become banker, you send the interest. Now how you are utilizing, you know, I don’t bother. But if I get the interest, then I think it is all right. Is it all right? Simple?” 

Atreya Ṛṣi was very happy with his new service. “No, I know. I shall do it. We will put in this bankbook, your account, $2,000 now, today. And you will get eighteen percent interest. You want it on a monthly, yearly, how do you like?” 

Telling Harikeśa Swami to also give Atreya Ṛṣi some cash he was holding, Prabhupāda told Atreya Ṛṣi he should pay him on a monthly basis, and deposit the funds in America with Rāmeśvara Swami. 

As we prepared to go Śrīla Prabhupāda went over some of the details of how to make his toothpaste with Harikeśa, who had been the first to make it for him. Harikeśa laughed at the suggestion that they use the bitter nīm powder instead of calcium carbonate. He didn’t think anyone would be able to tolerate the taste.  

I reminded Śrīla Prabhupāda of what he had said in London about his toothpaste. “You said your teeth were so rotten they want to fall out, but the toothpaste won’t allow them.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda grinned. “Yes, actually my teeth have gone all bad. It is useless. But on account of this toothpaste it is still working.” He gave a laugh. “Otherwise, according to dental science, it has to be extracted. It is no other remedy. If you go to a dentist, immediately he will say, ‘Extract all this and have a new set, artificial.’ That is, I know that. But I don’t want to extract. As far as possible, use them and let them fall out automatically, as they have already fallen out so many. Fifty percent already fallen out, and twenty-five percent are shaking, and still I am eating. Otherwise, according to the dental science, I should not eat any salt. In Bengal there is a word that when teeth is rotten, then your eating is gone. You cannot digest, you cannot eat. If the foodstuff is not properly chewed, it causes digestive disturbance. Digestive disturbance means so many diseases. This coughing is due to digestive disturbance. I know that.” 

“That’s because liver’s not working?” I asked, remembering the doctor’s opinion in New York.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda  agreed. “Yes. It is old man’s disease. Liver doesn’t work nicely, teeth does not work nicely, there is susceptibility to cold. Old age. All my young friends, they have all died. Nobody’s living. One or two still. You know that Dinanatha came? I think you know. He’s living. He’s seventy-five, seventy-six. Little younger than me.” 

He was referring to his old friend Dinanatha Misra in Calcutta. “That very thin man? Oh, I know. Yes. He was very sick actually when we were there.” 

“Yes, he was sick,” Śrīla Prabhupāda said. “He was half dead.” 

I asked who the people were who had gathered to see him when we visited his childhood Deities, Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Govinda, in Calcutta at the beginning of this year.  

“They are just like my younger brothers,” Prabhupāda said. “Their elder brothers were contemporary—they are all died. They are younger. They are all my childhood playmates. Their older brothers, the eldest one was my very, very intimate friend, Siddhesvar Mullik. We used to ride on the same perambulator when we were three, four years old. And Ratha-yātrā ceremony was performed with all these guests. They were about, in our neighborhood there were four, five houses. So all the children of the same age, I was the leader. I organized this Ratha-yātrā. I was performing Rādhāṣṭamī and Janmāṣṭamī, and I was learning how to dress the Rādhā-Govinda. Yes.” 

“You used to go in and dress Them?” I asked. 

“It is, actually, it was our house,” Prabhupāda affirmed. “Just three, four house after.” 

“Rādhā-Govinda were the only Deities in the neighborhood?” 

“Only Deity, yes. And Rādhā-Govinda has big property. In front of the Deity house there is a very big building. Just opposite. That is His building. Very good income. Besides that, He has many other lands. They have got very good income.” 

I observed that They had appeared well looked after.  

Śrīla Prabhupāda agreed and said the Mulliks were one of the oldest aristocratic families of Calcutta. “The whole, from Howrah Bridge up to that street, all belongs to their property. Very rich men.” 

He explained that the Deity gets so much income from the properties and the various Mullik families have a certain term each for worshipping the Deities. Whosever term it is, they get the income. “Practically that is now their income. The more one gets the worshiping term longer, he gets more income,” Prabhupāda laughed. “The Deity has got very, very good income. All the temples in India . . . Just like I am trying to make some fund for Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur. Even no contribution comes, it will go on. The sevā-pūjā will not stop for want of money. So there will be no want of money. Still, I must make some provision, by the income the sevā-pūjā will go on. Contribution may come or not. That provision should be made. Now in Vṛndāvana Akṣayānanda is collecting in so many ways. Suppose nobody collects. That does not mean this temple will be closed. It must go on. So I am trying to make some provision from that bank interest. At least 5–10,000 rupees so that the Deity worship will not be stopped.  

“That is the system in all Indian temples. It must go on, nitya-sevā. These big, big temple in Vṛndāvana, they have got such arrangement. Otherwise how it is going on for 500, 600 years? They have very good income. Govindajī has got 18,000 rupees monthly income. He’s the richest Deity in Vṛndāvana. And Raṅganātha is tenant of Govindajī. Land is taken from Govindajī, and Raṅganātha’s temple is constructed. The Raṅganātha’s temple management pays the rent. So Govindajī is the landlord and Raṅganāthajī is tenant.” He laughed. “Raṅganāthajī is Rāmānuja-sampradāya, Govindajī is Gauḍīya-sampradāya. So Rāmānuja-sampradāya is the tenant of Gauḍīya-sampradāya.” 

* * * 

The purchase price of the new house here is $160,000. The location is good, being mid-way between the westernized north and the more traditional enclaves of the south, and just near the university. The address, on Avenue Kakh, is a small side street just off the main thoroughfares of Takht-e-Jamshid and Palavi Avenue. Avenue Kakh has only three or four houses on one side of it and the house is fairly typical for the area in that it has a high wall and big gate, no backyard, and a modest front yard with small red mulberry tree as its only feature. 

It took about forty minutes by car to get there. When we arrived, Śrīla Prabhupāda was politely and respectfully received by the old Iranian couple that own the place. Taking their permission Atreya Ṛṣi led Prabhupāda through the premises, pointing out the salient features as he went along. The building has approximately 1,000 sq. ft. on each floor, the downstairs consisting of a kitchen in the back, and a couple of large rooms, the front one of which having a bay window which juts out into the yard. There is also a partial basement. The upstairs has two large and one small room off a landing at the top of the stairs.  

Atreya Ṛṣi explained he plans to convert it into a restaurant and preaching center, with the brahmacārīs living upstairs. The present villa will be occupied by the householders and Deities will be installed there. Śrīla Prabhupāda gave his approval. 

After our short tour our hosts, who spoke French as a second language, graciously offered a large plate full of fruits. Śrīla Prabhupāda happily accepted an orange which he had me cut into pieces before consuming. As we left he commented that there was still a semblance of Vedic culture left in Iran.  

We returned around 12:30 p.m. Part of the route took us past a desert area in the midst of which, by careful irrigation and cultivation, were very fertile patches of grass and flowers. Śrīla Prabhupāda observed that even in the middle of dry and barren land many things may be grown if provision for water is made.  

There was also a little discussion in the car about the preaching here. Atreya Ṛṣi said that some devotees think that he is too cautious, but Śrīla Prabhupāda reassured him with his comment “No, slow but sure, that is wanted.” 

* * * 

The Englishman, Peter, came in mid-afternoon, and he asked some nice questions. One was about karma. “Swamijī, if one does a good action . . .”  

Prabhupāda cut him off, speaking strongly. “Oh, what is that good? How will you do good to others if you do not know what is good? Do you know what a good action is?” 

“Well, my question is about karma, whether you can dedicate the results of good karma to others?” 

Prabhupāda graphically explained to him how everyone can dedicate their activities for the benefit of others by giving everything to the original source of everything, Kṛṣṇa. “Yes, everything should be dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, that is proper action. Just as one pours water on the root of a tree and as you put food in the stomach. If you have one rasgulla, you must put it in the mouth for the stomach, not in the eye or the ear or in this hole or this hole. Why this one? Then the whole body will be happy.”  

* * * 

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s final evening darśana, although well attended, had a more subdued tone to it this evening. Śrīla Prabhupāda was relaxed, allowing the pace of conversation to be dictated by the inquisitiveness of his guests, and content to simply chant japa when there were no questions.  

Navayauvana prabhu raised the point that people sometimes have the idea that first they must reach a materially comfortable position before they can practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. “On the material platform they are thinking, ‘You have gotten so much, now you can afford to practice this. We cannot afford such practice.’ ” 

Prabhupāda said that they are thinking then that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a luxury rather than a necessity. “But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans?” he asked. “You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamelā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally?” 

He said it was a question of training and culture, and he gave the example of Aniruddha, Pradyumna’s son. “This boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he’ll be great saintly person. Then he’ll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.” 

After some time Shahrezad made the observation that there seemed to be very few spiritual masters, and Śrīla Prabhupāda responded by having Harikeśa Swami read out verse 7.3 and its purport from the Bhagavad-gītā. As he did so Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu began to translate everything into Parsi for the benefit of his Iranian guests. Prabhupāda, however, did not approve, telling him mildly, “Atreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain.”  

Prabhupāda leaned back on his āsana, beads clicking to the rhythmic  pulse of his fingers, his lips barely moving as he continuously chanted the holy names. Traffic hustle and street noises permeated the atmosphere as we listened to the reading and above that the call to evening prayer resounded from the local mosques. The lilting voices of the mullahs attracted Śrīla Prabhupāda’s attention and he asked Atreya Ṛṣi, “These words, what is the meaning of this?” 

Atreya Ṛṣi translated the earnest petitioning of the priests into English. “Allah, ‘God is great, God is great, God is great. God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any . . .’ ” 

“Competitor,” Prabhupāda interjected. 

“ ‘ . . . competitor to Him,’ ” Atreya Ṛṣi continued on. “ ‘I witness that Mohammed is the prophet of God, is the . . .’ ” 

“Representative,” Prabhupāda rejoined. 

“ ‘ . . . representative of God.’ ‘I witness and accept Ali as Mohammed’s representative.’ ” 

“Who is Ali?” Prabhupāda enquired. 

“Ali is representative of Mohammed.” 

“This azan is an invitation for namaz, glorification of God. Inviting everyone to come and sing and glorify God. This is said five times a day. ‘Come and be truthful, and remain fortunate, remain truthful, stick to the right path. Come and join in the best activity, which is praise of the Lord. The highest form of activity, which is praise of the Lord.’ This is azan.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda appreciated it. “It is very good.” 

“Very nice,” Atreya Ṛṣi agreed, adding that, “Nobody hears it.” 

Prabhupāda quoted a long Sanskrit verse to the effect that the glories of God are so unlimited that neither the demigods nor the demons, nor the predominating deities of the elements can understand them. “But He’s glorified by the demigods like Brahmā, Śīva, Varuṇa, the predominating deities of air, fire. Everyone worships Him, yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair, by glorified prayers. And gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair—by Vedic hymns, by Upaniṣad, by Vedic literature. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino. The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. The same prayer. The difference is the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now ‘God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life,’ that they are not taking. Practically. That is the defect.” 

He compared knowing God to knowing a rich man. “If I understand that he is rich, I may consider, ‘Well, I have got $1,000, so he may have $100,000,’ that’s all. But if you understand that he has got millions and millions of dollars, then you’ll appreciate, ‘Oh, so rich!’ Then your regard for him will increase. That is not being done. Stereotyped, ‘God is great.’ How He is great, to what extent He is great, what is His greatness activities, if you know more and more, then your regard for God will increase. But that they are not doing. Simply officially, ‘God is great, God is great,’ finished. No jijñāsā, no inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who has become inquisitive of the uttamam, the most exalted subject matter, he requires a guru. Otherwise, who will answer his inquiries? If he’s not jijñāsuḥ, what is the need of guru? And where is the question of advancement? He must be jijñāsuḥ. That is, people are not interested. Officially, go to church, go to mosque, go to temple and do something. Then drop it and go to your own business and do whatever you like. No discrimination. They’re not serious. Not very serious.” 

Because people were not serious about inquiring how great God is, he said, therefore so many cheap gods are coming. “Any rascal, he is representing himself, ‘I am God.’ Because we do not know actually what is God.” Quoting Brahma-saṁhitā he gave his audience a glimpse of how great God really is. “Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya: the breathing period. We have got idea, breathing period. Within second we are having two, three breathing. So within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu innumerable universes are coming out. This is greatness. We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. So when we speak all these things, they’ll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we’ll accept, ‘Here is God.’ This is the position.” 

Mr. and Mrs. Sahani were present again and Mr. Sahani, after being told quite strongly by Śrīla Prabhupāda two nights ago that we should simply accept whatever Kṛṣṇa says, now suggested therefore that we should have blind faith. 

But Prabhupāda told him no, there was no question of blind faith. At the same time though he also said no matter how one accepts Kṛṣṇa’s instructions, the result will be the same. “There is no harm even if you accept His word blindly. Otherwise, if you don’t like to follow blindly, then consider what is instructed. And then whatever you like, you can do. Both ways are there. But if you have faith in God, ‘God is saying this, I must do it,’ that blind faith is as good. Although it is blind faith, it is the fact. Actually it is not blind faith. It is full faith in God. ‘God is speaking this; I’ll accept it.’ Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is the position of mahātmā. Although such mahātmās are very rare, but one who accepts this fact, that ‘God is speaking, so let me accept it without any consideration,’ that is as good. If real gold is offered to you, you accept it blindly or by checking it, the result is the same. 

“Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gītā in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gītā, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Our preaching process is that you take Bhagavad-gītā’s instruction, that is perfect, and you’ll be happy. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don’t try to interpret it. Don’t try to exact some meaning of your choice; no, that is not good. You take it as it is, you’ll be benefited.  

“Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We are not manufacturing anything. That is the guru paramparā system. And if we follow strictly the line of mahājana, then there is no question of mistake. It is not blind faith. The superiors are following, and we are also following. Of course, there are books, there are everything. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātrika-vidhi. Everything is there. The guide is there, the spiritual master is there. So there is no difficulty. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the best way: follow the mahājana. Unfortunately, without following mahājana, everyone is becoming mahājana in his own way. And that is being supported, that you manufacture your own way of spiritual progress, that is all right. That is dangerous. That is dangerous. And that is going on now. You can manufacture in your own way. And there are thousands who are coming, manufacturing their own way and spoiling the whole thing. We are therefore requesting people that don’t be misled. Here is the greatest mahājana, Kṛṣṇa Himself. You follow His instruction.” 

Speaking in a mixture of Hindi and English Śrīla Prabhupāda quoted Kṛṣṇa’s statement in Bhagavad-gītā that only one out of thousands would seek perfection, and he referred back to Navayauvana’s point made at the beginning of the darśana. This time however, he gave a completely different view of India’s spiritual condition. “So they are not interested. They are simply interested with eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Then? You were telling, that ‘First of all, let us become rich like Americans, then we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa.’ When they go to preach about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the people say that ‘We shall think of Kṛṣṇa later on.’ In India also they say that. ‘We are now poverty-stricken. Let us first of all become rich, and then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa.’ They say like that. They are not interested. They think to become rich is more than understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is the position. They say frankly that ‘We are not interested, why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.’ How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say, ‘All the śāstras now throw away in the water.’ ”  

Atreya Ṛṣi prabhu recently bought one of the briefcase-sized film projectors that Gargamuni Swami showed Śrīla Prabhupāda in Māyāpur in March. So Prabhupāda allowed him to set it up in his room, and to everyone’s satisfaction, he showed two films, Spiritual Frontier, the new film by Yadubara prabhu about New Vrindaban, and Brilliant As the Sun, which shows the workings of the BBT in producing and selling Prabhupāda’s Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Prabhupāda was very gratified to see the wonderful efforts of his disciples to produce his books. At the end he told his guests with great satisfaction, “This is due to American boys’ cooperation.” 

Mr. Sahani was impressed. “Yes, very nice. A great achievement.” 

And Atreya Ṛṣi reminded us that actually it was all due to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s mercy.  

“And now we are trying Middle East with the cooperation of Iranians,” Prabhupāda added.  

Some regular guests at the darśanas have been Mr. S. M. Patel, a big industrialist, and his wife Mrs. Rama Patel. They are from a prominent family in Delhi, and had met Śrīla Prabhupāda there and became ISKCON life members. Prabhupāda had once asked her to open a temple and before they arrived this evening Atreya Ṛṣi informed him that the Patels had promised a $20,000 donation for the new house, but had not mentioned it again. So at an opportune moment Atreya therefore took advantage of Prabhupāda’s presence to remind them of their obligation. “Mr. Patel has donated over $20,000 for the purchase of that temple, Mr. and Mrs. Patel.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda responded with a Sanskrit verse from Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. “Sannimitte varaṁ tyāga vināśe niyate sati. Money will be spent, and if it is spent for good cause, that is the proper utilization.” 

Eager to encourage his congregation Atreya Ṛṣi informed Śrīla Prabhupāda, “All the community people here in this room have donated as much as they can. They have helped us.” 

And Śrīla Prabhupāda’s reaction was one of gratitude and detachment. Indirectly he made it clear that he was not obliged to anyone simply by the fact of a gift, but that whatever they give he gratefully accepts on behalf of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. It was not for himself, but for their own benefit. His Divine Grace never becomes someone’s servant merely on the basis of their donating money, no matter how much. Thus he told them, “In America we have got the facility for selling books. Contribution there is, but our main source of income by selling books. We are selling books to the extent of $60,000 daily. $60,000 daily. America and Europe. Europe we have got other language publication. We have published Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Bring it. It is translated by one Chinese student.” 

Mrs. Patel told Śrīla Prabhupāda that although she didn’t know Chinese, she knew Japanese, having being brought up in Kobe from the age of six months. 

Śrīla Prabhupāda knew the place. “I have been there. Many good Indian population. There is an Indian association there.” 

As the Chinese Bhagavad-gītā was shown around Jñānagamya prabhu glorified Śrīla Prabhupāda for his monumental achievement. “You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupāda, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher—Muhammed, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya’s mercy.” 

“Books means solid ground,” Prabhupāda said evenly. “What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī: śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā/ aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate. Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance—utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt. Even Kṛṣṇa, He’s God Himself, He’s speaking, He’s giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra. So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you’ll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we’ll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.” 

Atreya Ṛṣi informed Śrīla Prabhupāda that Mrs. Patel had prepared khichari and he immediately requested some. As the delicious preparation was served out to everyone in the room, the conversation switched to a lighter tone. It was mentioned by a guest that in Kabul the Hindus there have a beautiful temple and here in Teheran the Sikhs have a big Gurdwara. 

“So why not a beautiful temple here?” Prabhupāda asked.  

Atreya Ṛṣi agreed, but said that first they needed a piece of land. 

Prabhupāda was upbeat. “Why piece? Take big land. Make something gorgeous. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Although He likes to live in the village, but He is Dvārakādhīśa also.” 

Śrīla Prabhupāda enjoyed the khichari and complemented Mrs. Patel on her cooking. The taking of prasādam brought the meeting, and Śrīla Prabhupāda’s public preaching here in Teheran, to a satisfactory close. 

August 13th, 1976

After another relaxed discussion in the garden, Śrīla Prabhupāda took an early massage at 8:30 a.m. He left after breakfast at 10:45 a.m. for the airport and we flew out on an Iran Air Tristar at 12:40 p.m. to return to Bombay, thus completing the final leg of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s highly successful world tour.